Religion

[Lol]

Just for interest's sake, I'm going to quote from a certain author we all love, because in her books we only get her beliefs filtered through fictional characters, often in fictional worlds. Some of it is a bit odd out of the context of the essay.




We must live life as artists creat transient installation art - with passion and love and pain and courage and a ravenous hunger for truth and beauty.
To look for an ultimate god to tell us how to live is to live as a student, too frightened to venture forth alone. To look for a summing up by an ultimate being is to need critics and reviewers to tell us what we have meant by our work.
Ultimately, we must undertake the lonely frightening task of making our lives and accepting that we are the creator and the art and the sand grains blown away by the wind. It does not matter if we build of mortar and bricks or of swansdown and thistlefur. What matters is the act of creation.
I believe that art does not imitate life, nor life art - life is art, and we must strive to make of it a masterpiece, for it is all there is.

Isobelle Carmody, 'This I believe', in This I Believe edited by John Marsden.

[Swallow]

And something less inspiring but brought on by religion and the mention of Monty Python....

O Lord, please don't burn us,
Don't grill us or toast your flock,
Don't put us on a barbecue,
Or simmer us in stock,
Don't braise us or bake or boil us,
Or stir-fry us in a wok.

Oh please don't lightly poach us,
Or baste us with hot fat,
Don't fricassee or roast us,
Or boil us in a vat,
And please don't stick thy servants, Lord,
In a Rotissomat

[Kaylan-R]

Monty Python.......best religion there ever was......Imagine! Endless Life Of Brians!!!....

[Siryn]

i don't think i have a religion, but i am very spiritual.

to most people i would say yes i am a believer in god, very much so, but probably not the type of god you believe in.
it is always hard for me to explain, (i guess it could be the equivalent of beast thought mixed with empathy) it's one of those 'i know -but i don't know how'. I just feel it, very strongly. gos is like an entity, an energy that encompases everything in the universe just like air touches everyting on land.

i was once asked what i believed in: "creation or evolution?" i just said both, coz it's true.
To me, what ever miraculous turn of events that lead to The Big Bang (or whatever else you believe in), and whatever else that has happened that has allowed/turned out to be the right now, and whatever else that will happen in the future (not that to me it is in any way etched in stone) this is what i call god.
god isn't a person/human figure. To me saying/drawing/thinking god as a man makes us humans seem like we think we are superior to everything else in the universe or that we are equal to god.

i am an absolute believer in the 'paranormal' though there is not so much 'para' in it for me, and yes i do think that some really mean people try to rip some vunerabe ppl off with their fake psychic readings.

i believe that while both good and evil exist in the universe, god is neither one of them. i do believe in heaven (or equivalent) but believe 'hell' is your soul/energy destened to be recycled again and again on Earth through different vessels until you are worthy of heaven.

thats my take on the verse and WOW i have really rattled on, i hope im not a loner out there and someone shares my beliefs.

[MajiKat]

ah Siryn, a gal after my own heart!

I am a pagan, and believe in both the god and the goddess of the earth. I too like to think of the deity as energy, and believe strongly in the cycles of life, death and rebirth, on both a physical and metaphysical level. I don't believe in heaven or hell, but, like you, believe in the recycling of the soul. i do not pray or worship in the conventional sense, but i respect the earth and what She gives us. i try and do my best for the planet, and respect and appreciate the cycles of life. that is my way of giving back and believing in the forces that rule our lives (the sun, the moon, the seasons, energy).

i also have a sort of beast-empathy thing going on. i do not for one second believe that humans are above animals - if anything, i think we are sometimes beneath them. we have trashed our planet, we wage wars, we beat our young, we disrespect each other and yet animals continue to live in harmony with it all, adapting themselves constantly to the changes that evolution and environmental destruction throw at them. excepting, of course, those species we have sent to their death...

and the good and evil thing - for me, the gods and goddesses of the earth embody both these principles in balance. humanity has, unfortunatly, unbalanced those principles. good and evil are seen in all life - esp in nature. we see a bushfire as a bad thing (and it can be for those who lose their lives or their homes), but natural fires are natures cleanser. fire renews life, as it also destroys it. that is one example of the good and the bad in balance in nature.

I won't go on about it again - i have posted heaps about what i think on this thread and don't want to rehash myself ;D

[Siryn]

So is there a classification/name for what i believe?

[shadowoutcast]

From personal experience a 'classification' or label on what someone has faith or a belief in somewhat 'deadens' the meaning it has in your life.

For example I consider myself a Christian as in a Friend and follower of Jesus Christ. I worship at a local Lutheran church, and various events throughout the year. When asked what I believe I answer Christian. The next question is about my dinomination, my answer is I follow Christ and The Word, dinomination dosen't matter... but I go to a Lutheran chuch. My label to them is now that I'm a Lutheran yet I have said I am a Christain with somewhat for me changes the meaning of my Faith.

So in other word and for me personally having something to 'name' your belief can make it limiting

[Siryn]

good point, that clears some stuff up.

i've, for convenience, wanted to be able to just say "yeah sure i'm a ______."

But your absolutely right, and i don't want to be limited, i don't need to classify it.

thanks

[argento_occhi]

I'm going with "other" here. Right, now that I've eaten, I can get to work explaining my beliefs. Bear with me if I don't explain things clearly or use words you've never heard before. I'm tired, and no expert in Kemetic (Egyptian) religious beliefs etc, so I'll do my best. Don't be offended if I can't answer some things. And that's really not supposed to sound as defensive as it does. It's been an interesting read, this thread. I'll try not to give you a lecture.

Basically, the short answer is, I'm Kemetic Orthodox. But, that probably means little to most of you. I'll get to explaining it in a moment if my tired brain allows such clarity.

I actually grew up Christian, my parents were Church of Christ ministers, before we moved house for year seven, and they decided to become Anglican. I had left my good friends behind, and being a shy girl, I wasn't keen on making friends with the girls at our new church. They weren't my type. I got bored in church. By the time I was 14, I stopped going. There was nothing in Christianity for me. I went through a couple of years where I suppose you could've called me agnostic. I wasn't really looking for religion at the time.

I've aways loved ancient Kemet. For as long as I can remember. It wasn't until I got to the end of year 11 when it was suggested to me that since I loved Egypt so much, why couldn't I make that my religion? And so my journey along the wiccan path began. But, I wasn't really Wiccan. Not my religion. In looking for ancient egypt groups, I came across this concept of Kemetic reconstructionists, people trying to recreate the ancient Kemetic religion. How that came about is a long story I've heard a few times but am in no way capable of retelling. The group I eventually settled with are the Kemetic Orthodox people.

The more I learned about them, the more I felt at home. These people believed some of the same things I did. And there wasn't any of the weird feelings at some of the other Temples. ANd when the Gods began turning up for a visit, it was hard to doubt They existed. I could recount all my experiences here for you, but that'd take forever. Some of them are documented here: Per Sebek in case anyone's interested.

Needless to say, I've found a faith that makes my soul sing. Nothing else has felt as right as this, and I was skeptical about becoming so involved with any group that has a King and calls themselves Orthodox. Sometimes I wonder how I can be a part of something like that. It's been an interesting two years, that's for sure.

And I realise I haven't really touched on my beliefs here, but I don't want to do that with a tired brain so I'll save that for later. But, I believe in Netjer (God) and It's presence throughout the entire world, everything has a remnant spark of Netjer, even those man-made things. So yeah. If I've still got you reading at the end here, congratulations. I hope my essay hasn't bored you stupid. But, I hope this has at least shed a small ray of light into my beliefs and my faith, that I consider a major part of who I am. Thank you for listening.

senebty (may you be healthy),
Argent

[Stephen]

Argent: my last name

Interesting views, never heard of this religion in modern times.

[Arctic Firefox]

My religious views are very simple: "Can't prove there IS a god; can't prove there ISN'T, so I'll just leave it at that and continue on with whatever I was doing beforehand."

[MajiKat]

Argent, i've got a friend who follows an ancient egyptian religion too. i'm not sure what it is exactly - something about Jah, and the Book of Keys, the Book of Thoth, and a few others i cannot remember. Its totally fascinating though - it defines who he is and is so right for him.

i'm glad you found your path. its a hard journey sometimes, and i went through it too.

[shadowoutcast]

Dispite all things I've been a Ancient Egypt Mythology enthiest for year, must of that is connected with my love of Stargate the movie and SG-1. (Atlantis is more based from Celtic and Greek/Roman Myth). Not that it has anything for is romotely to standard of your 'faith' (quoted for my own reasons) but I would like to hear the finer details in due time

[argento_occhi]

Ah, yes, I'm a Stargate fan from way back. I was watching the X-Files before that too. Methinks it corrupted me. Like, not that Stargate isn't scary, but some of the X-Files stuff is just damn freaky. *shudders at thoughts of spontaneous human combustion*

But onto my beliefs, which is why I'm replying here in the first place. I'm not entirely sure how to start as I haven't made a habit of writing down what I believe so I have to do this pretty much off the top of my head. Well, I have something up on Per Sebek, but it’s frightfully long so I’ll try and edit it so it’s kinda more … flowing. And not so long. It’s just over three pages, so I’ll try and cut it down. And I apologise if there’s many scattered ancient Egyptian words throughout. Sometimes they’re the only way to describe what I want to say. I’ll do my best to translate them. I’ve also used the Kemetic (Egyptian) names for the Gods. I feel more comfortable using them than the Greek names. But, enough rambling; onto the beliefs.

Kemetic Orthodoxy … I’m never sure how to describe this religion. Some refer to it as an African Traditional religion. For some it’s Pagan. For some it’s a reconstructionist/revivalist religion. I’m not sure what I’d call it. It strives to bring ancient Kemetic beliefs to life, to bring their religion back to life. And when I write that, it always sounds so imperialist, like we’re a bunch of crazed cultists trying to recreate an ancient Kemetic nation and get all military-like about it. This isn’t the case, but it always sounds weird to say we’re practising the ancient Kemetic faith/religion. Which is mostly why I try to shut up about it. It’s very personal to me so I feel like I’m sharing a part of me rather than the beliefs of a religion. So, these are my beliefs, and not necessarily those of other Kemetic Orthodox. Please keep that in mind. I wouldn’t presume to speak for them all.

Kemetic religion is a form of monolatry. This is where there is belief in a single godhead, with other deities/gods as separate beings in Their own right but also being part of that Godhead. Confused yet? Basically, there is Netjer. Netjer is like Brahman for Hindus, as I understand it. Netjer is like God. Formless, nameless (Netjer is simply the word for the divine in Kemetic), I see It more as a force than anything. The Gods – Seth, Heru (Horus), Wesir (Osiris) etc – are all aspects of Netjer, part of Netjer, yet They are Their own separate beings with Their own distinct personalities.

These Names of Netjer, as they are referred to, can be synchronised or aspected with each other. Synchronised Names are when two Names are joined to create a new Name, like Amun-Ra. Aspected Names are more complicated. An example is Het-Hert (Hathor)-Sekhmet. They’re like two sides of the same coin, as I’ve heard it described. The same Name, so to speak, with two faces. Or three if it’s Nit-Nebthet (Nephthys)-Seshat. It’s like a spectrum, if that analogy works as well. Het-Hert on one end, Sekhmet on the other, and She slides between the two extremes. Yinepu (Anubis) – Wepwawet is the same. I’ve heard Him described as Yinepu being the God, and Wepwawet being Him doing His job, if that makes sense. And this ties into polyvalent logic. Polyvalent logic for those who don’t know means many truths. Or something to that effect. As this relates to Netjer and the Names, it’s how one Name can be one Name, and another Name at the same time and neither as well. Also, there are a lot of titles thrown around and used as Names in Kemetic mythology.

Our view of the Afterlife… I find it hard to get a grasp on the finer details of the Afterlife, especially the existence of spirits and ghost-type beings. I’m yet to wrap my head around that. The Kemetic Afterlife is in the West, in the Duat. Upon death, the soul of an individual travels West to enter the Duat and undergo judgment. A person’s heart is weighed on the scales against the feather of Ma’at. Ma’at is the force that holds the world in balance. It’s a dynamic force that is constantly swinging back and forth to right itself. If he person’s heart balances with the feather, the person becomes an akh spirit, if I remember. Or can choose to become so. An akh is a transfigured spirit. They become our ancestors. Ancestor veneration is an integral part of Kemetic Orthodoxy. We go to them for help and advice.

It weirds some people out when they find out we have a King (Nisut), cos some think it’s more cult-like and everything. But, the Nisut is our link between our world and the Gods in the Unseen world, as it’s referred to. Priests were gifted their roles in ancient times to act on behalf of the King. It doesn’t make sense to have a revival of Kemetic religion without a King. Indeed, this wasn’t the bit I struggled with. The term Orthodox had way more baggage I’m still kinda dealing with than that we have a King. I don’t really know the story well enough to repeat how we came to have a King. I’m not really sure how to explain this to people. Yeah we have a King, but we’re not a cult or nothing, least not in a dangerous weird freaky cult thing. We don’t worship Her. She doesn’t like us worshipping Her, and frankly, I’d find it weird to worship Her in that way. You could think of Her as our spiritual teacher rather than our King. Sorry I don’t know how else to explain this.

This is the main KO site. This will probably explain things much better than I can. I hope this has helped explain my beliefs and my faith somewhat. I’m not sure what else to tell you. If there’s anything else you’d like to know ask away. Brain is kinda fried from having to write this from scratch. Head hurts now, see? Hope that’s enough of an explanation into Kemetic Orthodoxy (KO). I’m by no means an expert on this, so that’s just my opinions and beliefs that mostly tie in with KO. A page of my ramblings. Enjoy. Feel free to ask me for clarification if something's unclear.

Senebty,
Argent

[shadow]

I would rather buddhism. Tis simple, but really boring.....

[Gahltha~]

JESUS CHRIST!! (No offence to the christianites :S) This is still going.... sorry i've been, well busy with yr12. Yeah i've become interested in Norse/Celtic Mythology and all that because of Stargate. Damn i love that show! Which brings me to, why would any god demand that peolpe worship him/her? If they're all powerful and supposedly on another level of existence, WHY!!!!?

[Stephen]

Which religion were you referring to? In christianity, God does not demand that we worship him, he just likes it when we do, and we do because we love him and want to show both him and the world that very fact.

[Arctic Firefox]

Well, that's according to your interpretation. The Ten Commandments are just that, commands. Depending on how you read them, they could be very demanding indeed.

Just for the record, I consider myself to be an agnostic, which basically means, for those who are unsure, that I feel it's impossible to know whether there is a God.

Frankly, I think we have enough problems on this planet as it is without considering our origins, so I tend to focus on the problems at hand.

If there is a God, however, I doubt she has much time for us.

[esspess]

huh ok that was aeird i wrote this whole long thing and my computer spazed and its gone oh well...ill try again.
ok well i didnt choose anything from the poll as my religion isnt exactly up there but it does kinda tie in with hinduism but i wouldnt call myself hindu. im a hare krishna, which is what it is known as, though i dont know exactly if there is a name for it as such. for those of you who have never heard of this you may know of it other wise as "those crazy people who sing and dance in the street" which seems to a description most people have heard of..lol. if this still doesnt help you may remember a Simpsons episode where they are at an airport and homer says "now that is what you call a crazy person"...i just had to add that as i though it quite funny, not that im laughing at my beleifs but i took no offence to it so it was quite hilarious.

anywho thats besides the point slightly older members might have more chance of knowing as they were a little more known about in the '60s and '70s, it is a religion which is stemed from india and came to the west last century mainly. anyway i have no time to get into details as i must leave soon but what we beleive in is i supose a little to hard for me to explain in short but we are unbiased to other religions, or at least should be but i cant account for everyone, and in fact beleive that others such as christianity etc. are quite true also but this is jsut what is right for those who choose to follow this religion, and other religions are what are right for them, although of course we do beleive that this path is ultimately more rewarding,as does everyone in their own religions. there is also the beleif in re-incarnation and karma which are part of it and our god who we call krishna but who has countless other forms and names, is who we beleive by following/beleiving in, for want of a better word, will eventually lead us to obtain basically a higher understanding and when we are able to surrender ourselves to the love of krishna and fully understand our current position and be free from the i supose sinful actions which bind us here we can eventually obtain our position on the highest of levels in the heavenly abode where we can reside by the lord/god in his purest form, and obviously since it is heaven, this means you are in bliss for the rest of eternity etc,etc.

this probably sounds all quite corny but this is the best way i know how to explain it in short, but i suppose when talking of god and religion it kind of always turns out like this as there is just no way to put limitations on such topics and talk about them so shortly, also i am pressed for time hear so i must leave but if anyone wants to talk about this or has questions as i dont klnow how many of you know much about it feel free to ask
anyways bye for now ;D

[satania]

i don't have a belief. i'm one of those people who doesn't belive in god or gods, but is really interested in other religions. i usually concentrate on one and do some research, but if i don't save it on my computer, i forget all about it when i start the next one. btw esspess your religion sounds kinda interesting, maybe i should look at that one next.

[esspess]

indeed it is interesting, and it is a very old religion, with stories and events dating back thousands of years even a million i think but the calander is only around 5 thousand years (there is more o it than that but), but anyway it encompasses many things that are also in hindu religions, which infact are just people choosing to follow different incarnations of Krishna who they also beleive in but choose not to follow as their main god, thats the simplest way to explain it.
my parents are both of the same religion so i was born into it but these are my beliefs, and my parents have made it quite clear that i dont have to beleive this but i choose to so im not really one of those people who just claim to a religion because they feel they have to. also i have been a vegetarian my whole life as this is part of our beliefs that we dont kill animals or support the killing of them. anyway this religion is one where people are free to follow at their own pace and more devoted people are stricter on certain things than others, but it is up to the individual to follow and beleive as they will.

in this religion there is also so called hell, and we believe that similar to christianity if you do horrible things when you die you may go there, but unlike christianity it is not for ever, it maybe for many many life times but eventualy once the person has paid their debt as such their time there will end, but as this earthly planet has both equal emounts of hevean and hell on it we may not go to hell but may burn up our bad karma in our life situations, this has lots to do with karma (which is commonly misjudged as all bad but this is not true you can have both good and bad karma),and reincarnation and is quite complex, but we believe that the soul is pure and eternel and that the body is merely a vehicle which you will leave at the end of each life time, and on this earth nothing is eternal, so we aim to be free from all atachment to anything on it, so death isnt such a big deal or seen as the end, because it is believed that we have been in this circle of life and death for many thousands of life times already and are just trying to be the best we can in a spiritual sense to end this cycle so our spirit souls can be liberated. this is why most people choose to have their bodies cremated at death to free their soul and also the people they have left behind from attachment.

this body is not us or our true form or self so we try to not hold judgement on others as each and every person is a pure spirit soul and we must see that no one is better than anyone else therefore, and we are all in the same boat trying to free ourselves and others may just be further along he path than others but we may fall down or others may become higher any time, depending on our actions but we all have the same potential, so we should always try to be the best we can so that we dont allow ourselves to fall back, cause it will only prolong your time spent in the cycle.

gah anyway tooo much to say im being a hog, but satania i hope this is helpful in giving you somewhere to start if you choose to research it, if your really interested you can ask me anything you like and ill do my best to answer your inquiries anyway im done, laters.

[satania]

thats really interesting. thanks a lot. cheers.

[esspess]

hey no probs glad your interested

[Sezzaxox]

I am an Atheist and Have only gone to curch in a couple of time in Finland so it was in a completly diffrent language that I did not understand and I have not been Babtisted. I am an Atheist and Proud to be one.

[Fuil Dearg]

im not very religious. i dont know much about hare krisna. i know a little. i like esspesses explanation. i was told taht they have some very old sanskrit texts, some as old as six thousand years.

esspess said:

anyway this religion is one where people are free to follow at their own pace and more devoted people are stricter on certain things than others, but it is up to the individual to follow and beleive as they will.

what things are they strict on?

esspess said:

in this religion there is also so called hell, and we believe that similar to christianity if you do horrible things when you die you may go there, but unlike christianity it is not for ever, it maybe for many many life times but eventualy once the person has paid their debt as such their time there will end, but as this earthly planet has both equal emounts of hevean and hell on it we may not go to hell but may burn up our bad karma in our life situations, this has lots to do with karma (which is commonly misjudged as all bad but this is not true you can have both good and bad karma),and reincarnation and is quite complex,

"but eventually once a person has paid their debt as such their time there will end". the idea of someone paying their debt (in this sort of context) doesnt make any sense to me.
i find it very interesting that earth has equal amounts of heaven and hell on it. can you explain more about karma, please. id like to know more about it.

esspess said:

but we believe that the soul is pure and eternel and that the body is merely a vehicle which you will leave at the end of each life time, and on this earth nothing is eternal, so we aim to be free from all atachment to anything on it, so death isnt such a big deal or seen as the end, because it is believed that we have been in this circle of life and death for many thousands of life times already and are just trying to be the best we can in a spiritual sense to end this cycle so our spirit souls can be liberated. this is why most people choose to have their bodies cremated at death to free their soul and also the people they have left behind from attachment.

"and on this earth nothing is eternal, so we aim to be free from all attachment to anything on it, so death isnt such a big deal or seen as the end". i dont see how/why nothing on this earth being eternal is a reason/need to be free from all attachment to anything on it. i can see how it might be a reason/need to be free from such attachment after you die if you were going to leave this plane or whatever and go to a higher one. and perhaps if that was so you may need to become free from attachments during your life and before your death or end of life.

esspess said:

this body is not us or our true form or self so we try to not hold judgement on others as each and every person is a pure spirit soul and we must see that no one is better than anyone else therefore, and we are all in the same boat trying to free ourselves and others may just be further along he path than others but we may fall down or others may become higher any time, depending on our actions but we all have the same potential, so we should always try to be the best we can so that we dont allow ourselves to fall back, cause it will only prolong your time spent in the cycle.

that is nice.

---

esspess, do u know of any good websites for finding out more about your religion?