Religion

[esspess]

oh ok wow i wasnt expecting so many questions lol...just know im not the most qualified person to give answers and mine are probably very far from right, not that im lying but i there is a lot to know and i think being 16 im too engrossed in my trivial everyday life to pay as much attention as i should lol ...but here goes...
first question first...what are they strict on..well just certain things like what you can eat the basis is we are vegetarian and dont eat any kinds of meat nor eggs...some people are more leaniant and might eat eggs every now and then coz they are in everything and its hard to avoid though they should try(i am guilty of this ..cakes are sooo good, naughty i know ) and others are more strict and will get right into specific restrictions on things like onions garlic, etc...i wont go tooo much into that because there isnt really a defined line on this and i am unsure myself..it could just be tradition more than part of the religion i dont know but there are different reports from different people, its hard to know who is reliable or what their reasons for it are...so yeah you dont need to know that part of it unless you actually want to get into it, but then you can do research later etc...

ok karma...well complex very complex...but ill try...ok the debt thing was more an analogy, like here is another which might make it easier to understand...a child being naugty has done something they are not meant to and their parent scolds them, like warnings, they repeatedly do this and then the parent puts them in a time out but its only for a certain amount of time, not for ever.So similarly a person has done many bad deeds and as a punishment after death they may go to hell for a certain amount of time (which may be the equivalent of many earth lifetimes), to have their punishment handed out...these punishments, to my understanding, are relevant to what sort of actions that brought about the karma...like if a person is violent and sadistic and tourchers people and murders people in particularly gruesome ways, then if they were to die and go to so called "hell" they would receive punishments like those actions which they committed against others, therefore they learn or can experience how it feels themselves...its like when a yopung child hits someone and makes them cry and the adult goes "why did you hit them, that wasnt nice, how would you like it if someone did it to you...im sure you wouldnt appreciate it...you should treat others how you want to be treated.." so thats why similarly i suppose you can say that if these people cant learn in this world how to treat others kindly and properly then they are sent somewhere where they will be shown what it is like first hand, and they must learn the hard way and repay the pain they have caused or what ever it is they have done while in "hell", because they cant manage to learn from their mistakes while they have the chance on this earth. then when done in this "hell" they will have to start their cycle of birth and death again.
God there is sooo much to say and soo little time ill have to answer the rest later...ive run out of time sorry lol oh well this will do for now but ill get back in as soon as i can cya

[esspess]

ok im bak sorry about the double post and everything...ill try and answer the rest of the questions now. oh and yes there are some very old sanskrit texts, like i said before its very old.

ok soo where was i...erm i think it was karma. ok so its very complex and im not really sure how to explain this...very simply "for every action there is a reaction" there is both good karma and bad karma. lets just say its kind of like a tally board where all the things you have done are marked on, good and bad, and for everything you've done there has to be a reaction for/to it. bad things happening to you will use up your bad karma, and good things will use up your good karma, not to say that you should go and hurt yourself purposefully to use up your bad karma it just doesnt work like that.
you are always creating karma and using up karma...karma is a material thing, and the karma you create in your past lives builds up and rolls over to your next lives, you need to use up the karma you have, and as all karma is material you must take birth in the material world to use it, karma binds you to this earth basically. karma isnt always dealt out in proportion to what you have done, everyday things just little things are using and creating karma, sometimes you might use up large amounts at a time other times small amouts. people that seem to have good things happening to them all the time are just using up their good karma, as you have had so many life times there is so much karma that for a whole life time maybe more you can use up mainly, either good or bad karma, so for most of a persons life it may seem they are always having good things happen to them. this can also be said vice versa, a person may seem to always have bad things happen, this is for the same reason, or it could be that they have more of one or the other...
other people might use up their karma in a more equal way, its not something you choose obviously, but you can choose to do good things so create more good karma, and avoid doing as much bad things as you can, some people might choose to do good things to benefit themselves, and others because they truly want to be a moral kind person and help others etc.
both bind you to this material world but obviously its better to have good karma. what it is that you want to be creating though is "Sukriti" which is "merit", similar to good karma you might say but this is pure it is not on the material plane it is of a transcendental worth, where as good karma is material. Sukriti will not bind you to this material world it will lead you to a path that will help you to be liberated, this is created by doing devotional services or or through contact with devotees. all of this, both sukriti and karma is gathered either knowingly or unknowingly.
i think ive said enough on that for a while so next question..

the reason/need to be free from this world because it is not eternal is..that this form we have here this life we have here is not our true form. we are continually changing lives and forms, as our material body dies we leave it for another form and a different life. we dont want to hold on to old ones because we are trying to free ourselves from this material world, we are here to learn lessons and once we have learnt our lessons we want to move on and continue learning we dont want to stagnate. what we have to understand is that even the people we leave behind are on this same path and have things to learn too, some of our time may be spent with certain people if we have things to learn with them but our journey will lead us to different people and places. we may meet the same people while both in different lives and situations, we are all eternal and so there is no point in holding on to things that must end, your soul and everyone elses soul is eternal, and your souls may become connected (form a strong bond or relationship that will never leave you), so that in your eternal forms you may meet again, but to get to a point where you are liberated you have to let go of things in this world and all these worldly concepts like "oh no i will never see them again", because this is not the truth and you cant get to the truth and your true self if you keep believing in illusions. you just ahve to let go and know that you will meet again when the time is right.
if you keep holding on to certain material situations and people or things you will just keep taking birth around these things and wont be able to move on and learn, you will stagnate. or sometimes after death people who hold on too much wont go into another life but will stay on this earth in a spirit form trying to do the things they did in life. this is a sad state to be in cause a lot of the time they wont realise they are dead, and yes i am talking about spirits or ghosts...they may stay in that state for a very long time, what may have been many life times, until they come to a realisation of the condition and situation they are in and then they understand and are ready to let go and move on to another life. or sometimes they may just stay in that state until people/things they are attatched to leave their forms also, so they move on together. but either way it is best if they just understand this in life and are able to let go and move on straight away, because it is a lesson they will just have to learn in a different life anyway, so it is just wasted time or more like procrastination really.
ive ran out of time again...gah i got to go ill continue again later

ok well i am bak and have modified this post slightly already so i will just keep goin from here...um actually i may have already answered all the questions, so i dont know what else to say. i hope this helped FD. but you did have a last question i think..where to find info, i think it was, well i would say to go and check out - www.purebhakti.com/ - if the link doesnt work just past that in the browser if you like. or you could just google it. OR you could google - hare krishna, or hare krsna - [krsna and krishna are the same word the latter is how you say it and how it would be spelt in english, the first (because it is a sanskrit word and they have letters in their alphabets that are more sounds that are like 2 of our english letters) is just another way of spelling it, some would say more traditional, but it should have dots under the 'r' 's' and 'n' which make the letters stand for the right sound, i dont have that notation on my comp so i cant add it but it works the same and makes no difference.] anyway searching both of these will come up with stuff its all the same but people just use a different spelling some times. hope these will help too more than me i would say .

can i ask you FD where are you from and if Australia can i ask where abouts? its just that i may be able to tell you places where you might like to go and have a look around if i knew some were close to you. anyway thats all cya. ;D

[Fuil Dearg]

im from Ireland, which is a small island east of the atlantic ocean on the other side of the world to Australia. my profile says Éire. Éire and Éireann are both irish words for Ireland. there are some hare krisna groups somewhere in this part of the country. i dont know where. id be more interested in reading about it though. or talking to someone whose i thought knew what they were talking about. so thats why i asked for a recommendation. i didnt want to read stuff on a website only to find that i had been reading rubbish. i know there is a group who claim to follow krsna but who are just frauds. im sure there are plenty who are not frauds. thank you for explaing in such depth and going to the trouble to explain it well. your explanations are quite good. your words are very well chosen. im going to reply to some of the things taht you have said but not now because i dont have the time. and i might have some more questions and a few more things to say. if im asking too much just pm me and let me know or post a reply, whichever you prefer. thanks for the explanation and for the link.

Fuil dearg.

[catwhisperer]

*walks in late* wow! look at this thread! It's hugely huge! I'm a Catholic Christian which I suppose is relatively normal but how interesting are some of these other ones???

[esspess]

lol FD im surprised you thought it was necessary to explain where ireland was, WHO DOESNT know where ireland is lol, even though it is small...you guys have such great accents they are sooo cool ;D . im not actually sure i know any hare krsna's from ireland, but if you would like i could always ask a friend of mine...hare krsnas always seem to know others from all over the world, its like a family so some of my friends who have actually travelled should know. this way you might be able to meet some one, and i can make sure they arent just some unhinged weirdo thinking they know everything, lol ill try and suss a level headed person out for you ; )
and dont worry about asking me questions im happy to answer anything that you would like to know, providing i actually know myself , if i dont know ill ask my mum for you and that way we'll both learn lol ;D

[Cookie Lover]

Currently I am nondenomination Christian, which I think sounds interesting, but is quite normal in my mind. To those who aren't sure about nondenominationality, it basically means I'm Christian, but don't know enough about the different sects to be part of any one of them yet. Which is good, I think, because it helps me come to my own conclusions.

[Hannai]

Im a Seventh Day Adventist which is a christian denomination.
There seems to be a commonality in most religions/ groups like what Espess said about being a krishna
Wherever i go in the world im welcomed like a long lost cousin.

Except when i go back to the small town church where I grew up.
I was the only girl out of the small group of children who attended there so when i go home there and visit im treated like a long missed grandchild and spoilt rotten!

[Fuil Dearg]

esspess, thanks for the offer to find someone in ireland i could meet and talk to about hare krishna stuff but i dont want to right now. im surprised you would go to so much trouble. thanks. i think i should mention that im not interested in converting to that religion or any other for that matter. i find some of the concepts, principles, history and stories of it interesting and would like to learn more about it. im interested in some other religions in a similar way.

i was reading chapters 40, 41 and 42 of Job (a book of the Old Testament of 'The Holy Bible'. the god in those chapters seems seems to have a very big ego and seems to not understand human nature. of course thats my opinion. i dont expect everyone to agree. and i read an english translation of the original text so i dont know if i interpreted it appropriately. the english was old and the original text is very old. i read about some myths (hebrew and otherwise) about adams first wife, Lilith. it's an interesting story. she leaves him because she considers him to be treating her as inferior and then 3 angels are sent to make her return to adam but she refuses. i find stories and references about angels interesting. i used to believe in angels. im not sure anymore. i was raised as a catholic. my belief in angels wasnt part of my catholic up bringing. some photos to do with the hare krishna religion are pretty. they often depict blue creatures that look like humans but a little different. they are considered to be very spiritually developed. european royalty/monarchs were said to be descended from some holy people (i forget who) and they were said to have blue blood. i am curious about the blue similarity. in some old religions (i think kemetic and Semitic are two examples but im not sure), speaking the name of god (a particular one of his/her names) was believed to have power. there is a story about Ra (who had many names) and another Egyptian goddess (i forget her name).
one day Ra is walking in a garden and he spits in the ground. she mixes the spit/saliva with earth on the ground and shapes this mud to form the shape of a snake. she then gives it life. later, the snake bites Ra and he becomes very ill from the poison. she tells him that only she can cure him and she will only do so if he reveals his secret, powerful name to her. he does so and she cures him.
in many religions and cultures speaking some particular words are believed to have power (eg mantras, spells, incantations). they are stories about creatures/people whose name shall not be spoken. i was told that the incantation taht the three witches speak in Macbeth ("Bubble bubble boil and trouble") was actually from a real incantation. i dont know if it is true though.
A few months ago i read a piece of a story in a translation of a bit of a Hare Krishna text. it said that there was a man who was about to die and that he should go to [something like the 'hell' that esspess described] because of his deeds but that at the moment of his death he called out a particular name. (i dont remember whose name. i dont remember some of the details very well. the name was of much religious significance though.) and when he called it out he was thinking of someone who he loved dearly. the text said that he should go to [something like the 'heaven that esspess described] because he called out that name with a particular feeling/meaning. although, he said it with that meaning or feeling because of how he felt about the person who he loved. it was an accident. then hairy, ugly, clumsy-looking creatures, human-like in appearance, showed up to take him to the 'hell' / 'underworld' because of his bad deeds. these creatures had been charged with this duty by krsna. they had ropes. about the same time beautiful creatures with four arms and beautiful swords also showed up. they had also been charged by krsna but they were charged with teh duty of bringing the souls to 'heaven' rather than 'hell'. there was confusion and the two groups discussed it. i didnt finish the story but i got as far as the beautiful-looking group questioning the other about some principles to do with krsna. i forget who they were to do with krsna exactly.

if im incorrect in any of what iv said please correct me.

esspess, thank you for all the help and explaining. i never heard of the Sukriti before. i think that your "procrastination" analogy or comparison makes sense. i think that there is a lot of wisdom in some of what you posted. i have a lot of questions taht i might post sometime. id like to understand karma better. i might ask you about it sometime and explain which aspects of it dont make sense to me. i followed the link and i didnt find it useful. thank you nonetheless. thanks.

Fuil.

[Dragon]

I was brought up a Roman Catholic also but from the time i was old enough i have questioned it. I find it hard to define my beliefs but i will try. I do believe in god though i do question him/her/it at times, I am a follower of Blessed Mary MacKilliop and i believe in angels. I tend to disagree with the bible, I have never liked it. I have found my religion very contradictory so have formed my own beliefs that differ from mainstream RC beliefs so i cannot really call myself a RC thesedays. I have started following a bit of Wiccan rescently with the help of a Wiccan friend, but i think most of my beliefs come from my life experiences and my own views on different things, like the meaning of life. Essentially (not to offend) i adhere to Kirsty-ism!

[esspess]

esspess, thanks for the offer to find someone in ireland i could meet and talk to about hare krishna stuff but i dont want to right now. im surprised you would go to so much trouble. thanks. i think i should mention that im not interested in converting to that religion or any other for that matter. i find some of the concepts, principles, history and stories of it interesting and would like to learn more about it. im interested in some other religions in a similar way.

lol, i realise now that it must really seem to you like im trying to convert you or something but that wasn't what i was intending by suggesting meeting someone, im not trying to convert you at all, i just like people with open minds to religions and am glad to explain things to them that they would like to know...i only suggested meeting someone because its quite hard trying to explain so much on a forum and it sounds like your looking for more than some off handed vague replies (as you appear to know that far already), so i merely was suggesting a way in which you might talk to some one a little closer to yourself, or a little more knowledgeable than myself, as i dont pretend to know all that much.
so please dont feel like im trying to convert you i just thought it would be easier, but if you prefer asking me questions i dont mind either..its not really much of a hassle at all, and i wasn't planning on going to too much trouble in finding someone i was just going to ask, which isnt too hard i thought but i suppose i wont need to bother with that now anyway ;D

by the way, the man always represented as blue IS krsna, or at least as close a representation anyone is capable of making, stories and scriptures say that krsna took birth in a human form, i think it was like just over 5000 years ago...anyway he has taken many incarnations on this planet (which is why i forget the time it was) but this incarnation is the most important i suppose ... its strange how the things you take for granted that you know are the ones hardest to explain because you yourself never bother to ask questions because you already know...if anyone understood that. lol. its just that i realised im not sure how to explain this to someone who doesnt anything about the subject really... anyway itll suffice to say the blue man is meant to be krsna.

then hairy, ugly, clumsy-looking creatures, human-like in appearance, showed up to take him to the 'hell' / 'underworld' because of his bad deeds. these creatures had been charged with this duty by krsna. they had ropes. about the same time beautiful creatures with four arms and beautiful swords also showed up. they had also been charged by krsna but they were charged with teh duty of bringing the souls to 'heaven' rather than 'hell'. there was confusion and the two groups discussed it. i didnt finish the story but i got as far as the beautiful-looking group questioning the other about some principles to do with krsna. i forget who they were to do with krsna exactly.

hmm well i dont remember hearing this particular story (i swear there must be like billions), but i am pretty sure the ugly creatures you refer to are Yamaduta's, they come at the time of death to people who are quite sinful and take their soul to Yamaraja, who then judges what to do with them, like send them to 'hell' or what not, Yamaraja is working on behalf of krisna, his position is to judge the souls basically. you can find out more by google-ing - yamaduta or yamaraja - the first link comes to some pretty alright information, its fairly simple to comprehend for some one who doesnt know much about the topic, or as far as i can tell it is, it might freak you out a bit though lol. ill post the link as it is probably a better site to go to than the last as it seems to be focused on explaining things, so you might like to check it out - www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/dying.htm -
i dont know the name for the four armed beautiful creatures you mentioned though, i dont remember these specific ones im assuming they must be some kind of messengers or demi-gods come to take his soul to a heavenly planet ( a heavenly planet because in this religion there are more than one, countless really, and there are more than one planetary system, ours is in the middle, i think there are 7 above and 7 below, the extremes of these being God head, the highest, and 'hell' the lowest).

ive heard stories which i think are similar...someone has been in love with another person and at the time of death called out their name thinking specific thoughts, probably how much they loved them, and because that person had a spiritual name, like they were named after a god or demi-god, they were given some benefit because of their spiritual inclined thought.
in this religion saying the name of the lord or of gods/goddesses is purifying and you are gaining benefit from saying it because the name holds some amount of the purity of that god/goddes, it is cleansing of the atmosphere and the mind also, and therefore that is why people are named after gods etc...
my name is Radharani, this is the name of krsna's consort Radha, when krsna had taken birth on this earth 5000 years ago she decided to take a human birth too at the same time as him, Rani means queen, and because she was a queen at some time during that life she was queen Radha, or in other words Radharani. radha's love for krsna is the highest love there is and she is his most faithful devotee, she is basically one and the same as krsna.
what i have explained about the benefit of saying the names is why we chant the holy names of krisna, and the mahamantra (where the name hare krsna's comes from because of the mantra..."hare krisna, hare krsna, krsna krsna, hare hare, hare rama, hare rama, rama rama, hare hare."

anyway i dont think there is anything else i have to say and i think ive said far too much already so im going to go to sleep now ;D nighty night all...

[Arctic Firefox]

The Bible is, and always was, and always will be, a fascinatingly incoherent collection of books. It's worth studying it from a socio-historical perspective, looking at the motives of the numerous writers. After all, many of the books were written long after Christ died, so there will undoubtedly be distortions and half-truths.

My opinion is this: there was an inspirational figure known as Jesus Christ, but he didn't perform all those miracles - instead, he preached love, compassion and free, independent thinking. This obviously put him at odds with the mainstream Jewish groups, and also the Romans, so he was killed, like many a dissident was in the time of the Roman Empire's might.

On a more barbed note, it's also rather disturbing how those who advertise their Christianity the most often know little, and practise even less, of Biblical teachings - in particular, those advocated by Jesus Christ himself.

[Fuil Dearg]

I agree with what AF said save one point; I think that Jesus may have been more than just that. I am not sure though. maybe he wasnt more than that.

Esspess, thank you again for all the info. I didn't find the first link you posted useful at all. I actually found it a little offputting but I found the second one very useful (even though I only read a small bit of teh webpage). I don't like the sound of the name Hare Krsna, especially the Hare bit. I like the name Radha (I dont know how to pronounce it though). The story you mentioned of Radha and Krsna spending that lifetime together sounds nice and a little romantic.
A few years ago I met a girl at night time and we talked. We had a strange converstaion. She told me that I had asked her to meet me there that night so that she would tell me what she told me that night and that I had asked her before this lifetime. You said that Radha had decided to take a human life at the same time as Krsna. How much choice have we over what lives we takes. Do we have some idea of the events taht are likely to or will happen in that lifetime?

i ahve to go. ill post some other time.

tahnks again, esspess.

Fuil.



EDIT. im back. so, about Karma.

From what i'v seen and read the idea of Karma seems to be: you do 'good' things and you have pleasant, peaceful experiences, you do 'bad' things and you have painful, ordealeous, unpleasant experiences. this is probably an over simplification, especially if the point of Karma is to learn about what certain experiences and feelings are like so taht you have sympathy for others.
what is the point of Karma?
is it: -so that you will act in a particular way ('be good') because if you do not you will be hurt and punished? if it is I truly do not see the point (nor value in a respect for / esteem sense) of Karma.
-so that you have a better understanding of the impact that particular experiences, feelings, emotions, events and pain have on others, so taht you will act mercifully, sympathic and understanding toward them becuase you care about them and what happens to them?
-something to do with fairness?
-something else?

EDIT 2. esspess actually already answered most of these questions but i had forgotten when i posted and didnt notice again until recently.

[MajiKat]

i believe in Karma. most definately. it makes sense.

i believe in a kind of earth-nature karma, in the sense that you do good things for the planet because it is our duty. mother earth sustains us, she feeds us, she clothes us, she houses us, she gives up so much of herself so that we can be here. she is powerful and i think sometimes pppl forget that. so if we are not good to her, karma will get us in the end...

FD - I love the stories of Lilith! she is a rather celebrated figure in modern feminist circles becuase of her strength and her determination to remain true to what she felt. she disappeared for a long time from ppl's minds. also, i think the Egyptian goddess you are talking about in your earlier post is Isis. i seem to recall reading a story where she set Ra up - she poisoned him and then she saved him in return for him sharing some of his magic and his knowledge with her.

[Fuil Dearg]

mysterikat said:

FD - I love the stories of Lilith! she is a rather celebrated figure in modern feminist circles becuase of her strength and her determination to remain true to what she felt.

I liked the stories of Lilith too. (iv only read very little of them tho.) "becuase of her strength and her determination to remain true to what she felt." that's what i liked most about the story when she leaves Adam.

I like the Final Fantasy VII (video game) explanation of souls, lifeforce, nature, planet, etc. except that i didnt like the idea of the soul being completely dissolved into the lifestream. I like the idea of a soul being eternal. I suppose it depends what you mean by soul though. People seem to have some quite different meanings of soul to other people.

MysteriKat, the idea of duty makes some sense and is one that I had not before considered.

mysterikat said:

so if we are not good to her, karma will get us in the end...

I don't see how not being good to her relates to Karma getting us. I'm not saying taht it doesn't. I'm just saying that I would like an explicit explanation of their relationship to each other. I'm not saying that not being able to give one means that it doesnt make sense either. there are plenty things taht are known and are not easily explained.

[MajiKat]

i'm not sure karma is the right word - i couldn't think of another to use. what i mean, i guess, and this is hard to explain becuase its more of a feeling than anything else, is that we, as the human race, need to pay more attention and give more psitive energy to the planet. in all seriousness, it is the one thing that we cannot afford to destroy or damage beyond repair. i'm talking here about all the negative aspects of humanity that directly affect the planet - pollution, the greenhouse effect, environmental devestation like logging old growth forests, things like uranium mining - why are we even going there - over-exhaustion of our fossil fuel supplies, driving species to extinction...

i guess what i am trying to say, that in the end, if we do not start sending out more positive vibes and putting more effort into sustainable methods of energy etc, that we are going to be the ones on the short list for extinction. this may not happen for hundreds of years. i dunno. i mean, i know its inevitable that the human race is going to continue to expand and develop, but i think we should do so with sustaining the planet in mind.

thats what i meant by karma - mother nature's own personal karma - is going to get us if we don't do these things. She is incredibly powerful and time and time again mankind thinks they need to try and conquer her, but they cannot. my relationship with nature is to respect her, to respect her power and her soul and her role in our lives. i think that gets forgotten sometimes. in a sense, we, and every living thing on this planet, are her children. she is our mother, and we need to look after her.

does that make any sense at all FD?

[Kaylan-R]

arcticfirefox said:

The Bible is, and always was, and always will be, a fascinatingly incoherent collection of books. It's worth studying it from a socio-historical perspective, looking at the motives of the numerous writers. After all, many of the books were written long after Christ died, so there will undoubtedly be distortions and half-truths.

My opinion is this: there was an inspirational figure known as Jesus Christ, but he didn't perform all those miracles - instead, he preached love, compassion and free, independent thinking.
.

That's what I believe in. i don't think of him as a figurehead of anything like that, he was just someone who preached, and he could be much like an Philosepher at that time except that he introduced new concepts to the people.
Am I right in thinking originally the people were kind of Pagan, i mean not pagan as now, but believing in sun gods and moon gods, stuff like that?
Well, anyway, what I think is that Jesus came along, (like a philosopher), and simply preached.
I don't belive in his teachings personally, and not just because Im Aetheist, but sort of on the lines of what AF said. The Bible can't be proved that it was written by people who were told the information by jesus or God. It can't be proved that Jesus actually was the son of a god at all, because frankly, no none here is alive to prove it except for the Bible, which is no proof at all.
Im not trying to be against Christians, or people who belive in god at all. I'm just saying what I think as an Atheist. My friend Zack is a Satanist and I'm totally against some of his religious ideas because they seem so morrally wrong, though i dont dismiss his beliefs at all because no one knows what the right religion is. Be there god or no god, satan, hevan or hell.We cant prove it by "so called documentations"!!!
I belive in Jesus, and I belive he was just a simple person like a greek philosopher trying to get people to listen and agree to his ideas. Though the whole "god" and "bible" thing seems totally barbaric to me.

I don't really belive in Karma because it seems so out-of-this-worldish. I'm not saying that there's no such thing as Karma, but with religios things and spiritual things I'm all about proof and even though people say Karma came back to bite them on the a$$, I still don't believe in it. I just watch My Name Is Earl for the laughs, even though it is totally boring lol

Kaylan

[catwhisperer]

Hey, are any of you Jenovah's Witnesses? I have a friend who is and it surprised me when I first met her. She doesn't celebrate birthdays or Christmas. (but boy do you save money on gifts! lol I am stingy!!)

[esspess]

I don't like the sound of the name Hare Krsna, especially the Hare bit. I like the name Radha (I dont know how to pronounce it though). The story you mentioned of Radha and Krsna spending that lifetime together sounds nice and a little romantic.

May i ask what it is about the name you dont like? the hare does look like hare as in the animal (said like hair) but it is not said the same at all, it should have accents on it. hare means "O Radha!" its a nice name i think, so is krsna, but everyone to their own. i do agree the many stories of radha and krishna are very nice, they're so sweet.

A few years ago I met a girl at night time and we talked. We had a strange converstaion. She told me that I had asked her to meet me there that night so that she would tell me what she told me that night and that I had asked her before this lifetime. You said that Radha had decided to take a human life at the same time as Krsna. How much choice have we over what lives we takes. Do we have some idea of the events taht are likely to or will happen in that lifetime?

well hard question but it is said that after death we are able to remember all the lives that we have had, and in the womb we are aware of the hellish situation we are in (i say helish as it is said to be very uncomfortable while we are there) and that we are constantly praying to god to relieve us of the situation, then at the time of birth it is so traumatic that all conciousness we have is forgotten, and we are engrossed in this material world, until the time of death again.

i dont think we have an idea of the events or what will happen in our lifetime but i think we do make certain choices about our life before we take birth, such as i think we choose our parents, obviously it is accourding to our karma though. and i think we can choose when we take birth to an extent also, when we are ready i think.
one thing i think i mentioned before though is that we dont necessarily go straight from one birth to another, there are places where the soul goes first. one of these places is a place known as pitri-loca (i dont know how to spell it) or the planet of the fore-fathers, this i think is where some people go for a while (if you have seen the movie "ghost", at the end there is a place of light with shapes of people moving about, i think that they were trying to depict it there as they also borrowed other aspects from the religion for the movie, like the yamaduta's for taking the spirits of those bad guys away). anyway my point is that there are many other places than earth and in these places we can communicate and even live for a while, although living may be in a different sense from this world.
but souls we have known from previous lifes here or in different realms/worlds we may have an affinity with and like i mentioned before may still need to travel some of our lifes together, we may be able to choose certain aspects of our lives like when and where we are born that make it possibe for us to meet up or for our lives to cross or weave together. knowledge is lost from most peoples concious minds, but possibly sub-conciously our minds are leading us to do certain things we dont know of conciously, or maybe it is in our karma for these certain things to happen.
it is said there are some people who are born that still rememer their past life (they still have to grow up and learn things like others but, as they grow older they have memories that arent from this lifetime)(just from the last one i think, and not of the whole life often just bits and pieces, depending on the person etc.), at least there are stories of people who claim it. im not sure how true all these stories are but i beleive this can happen and does rarely. and there are stories of people who are psychic and all that sort of thing. well you must think that even scientist have proved that even the smartest people are only using a maximum of 10% of our brains, or something close to that, there is so much unknown about them.
anyway it is said that true enlightened or pure devotees can remember their past lives and other such things. this is a bit hard to go into but ill just suffice by saying that we have the capacity to know many a great things and do many things, but that we dont train our minds in the right way to learn them.
hope you are at least understanding some of what i am saying i think i am being very vague about it all, its jsut quite hard to explain in simple terms, without having to explain a whole lot of other things.

anyway i explained all this because i wanted to say that yes it is quite possible that this girl remembers you asking her to meet at a certain place and time in this lifetime, and that yes she might remember this other lifetme in which you asked this, etc. but what i dont know is the reliability of your situation, i dont know the situation or the girl..and there are alot of people out there who are slightly crazy or who claim things for attention, its pretty much impossible to tell the sincerity of people, and the validity of what they are telling you, especially when it gets into this side of things, where there isnt really any proof and its all leaning to the side of religion and mystical sort of things, you basically have to judge for yourself, because i do beleive that there are some people out there that are like this girl you mentioned, but others might tell you othe wise. obviously not all religions believe these sort of things.
in this religion though it is very possible she might have been telling the truth, and that this could have happened.

anyway hope it all made sense and cleared a fews things up, but somehow i think i just left you with more questions than answers now, lol i dont think i can help that, but keep 'em coming if you like.

p.s. yeh i wasnt too sure about how much you would like the first site, i havnt actually really looked at it myself, but i realise now it is just a news site for devotees of a certain movement..the one im in, but it isnt really an info site in that sense, sorry about that. i dont actually research this stuf so i dont know sites for it...if i want to learn i just ask someone, or if i every can get myself into learning all i can about it i would go to the books that are like our bibles in a way...

[Fuil Dearg]

i have since heard hare krishna pronounced by an indian person who probably knows how to say it. it sounded nice.

a wiki explanation i read about hinduism gave a good overview of it. your explanations helped a lot.

an indian person i sometimes chat to on the internet said that he would answer any questions i had about hinduism, krishna, etc.

esspess said:

anyway i explained all this because i wanted to say that yes it is quite possible that this girl remembers you asking her to meet at a certain place and time in this lifetime, and that yes she might remember this other lifetme in which you asked this, etc.

thanks for telling me. it is interesting to know.
i got the impression taht she meant before this lifetime and not in another lifetime, atleast not in a lifetime on Earth. but maybe that's not what she meant, i suppose.

esspess said:

anyway hope it all made sense and cleared a fews things up, but somehow i think i just left you with more questions than answers now, lol i dont think i can help that, but keep 'em coming if you like.

i have a few specific questions which ill ask when i have more time. i dont have heaps, just a few.

i didnt think u were trying to convert me at all or anything like that. i just didnt want u to think that i was intendting to convert in case that that would have motivated u for some reason if i had.

one quick question, karma determines the kind of life you life you are born into to a large extent, right? does someone choose this life for you? if so, does that someone know what is likely to happen in your life, or even what will happen in your life?

[esspess]

Aug 21, 2006, 8:07pm, esspess wrote:anyway i explained all this because i wanted to say that yes it is quite possible that this girl remembers you asking her to meet at a certain place and time in this lifetime, and that yes she might remember this other lifetme in which you asked this, etc.


thanks for telling me. it is interesting to know.
i got the impression taht she meant before this lifetime and not in another lifetime, atleast not in a lifetime on Earth. but maybe that's not what she meant, i suppose.

(i dont know how to do those double quote things but this is a quote of you quoting me )

when i said that she might remember this other lifetime what i meant by that was not necessarily a lifetime on earth, just a lifetime in general, where ever you may have been at the time. sorry for not explaining that clearly, i just forget most people only refer to earth lifetimes when they say 'lifetime', but because to me there is more than just this life and world it was a more general statement, lol i should be more careful sorry.

anyway to your question..

one quick question, karma determines the kind of life you life you are born into to a large extent, right? does someone choose this life for you? if so, does that someone know what is likely to happen in your life, or even what will happen in your life?

well this is starting to go beyond my knowledge a little but i can give you a general answer, so as far as my knowledge yes karma is a main factor in determining the life you are born into and what happens to you, but as your karma is always changing your life isnt a set path, it depends on the actions and choices you make, which affect your karma, like i think i mentioned before you are always creating more karma and using karma, so there isnt really a set path.
although there may be things in our life which are, i suppose, destined to happen, meaning the everyday sort of karma you are creating/using may have less affect on them, as they may be more ingrained, i dont know how to say it better i suppose they are bigger matters or larger amounts of karma which are harder to change the path they are leading you to, like there are certain things which you just have to go through to learn as there may be no other way.
its possible you could say that your encounter with that woman was one of these such instances (assuming it was all for real and she didnt make it up that is), i mean you supposedly planned to meet her in this life, and even though you, in this life, had no conciousness of that past encounter or this planned one, you still ended up meeting with her, even aside from the fact that everyday every second your karma and circumstances were changing. so in this way you could say it was just one of those things that needed to happen. if that makes sense.

to the next part of the question does someone choose this life for you...um well this is the part that im unsure about and all i can say here would probably be speculation, or mingled memories from when i was younger and ive asked this question, so in saying that if i were you i wouldnt hold on to what i say here to strongly, but ill say what i 'think' anyway and you can use it as a sort of guide.

ok well ive been told that you personally, to a small extent, do actually get to choose the familly and place you get to be born into. im not sure how it works, because to me it never made sense that you could choose something that was meant to be because of your karma...
but what i have kind of figured from this was that accourding to your karma there are a variety of situations and families which you could fit into to forfil (sp?) your karma. i mean there are many similar situations in this world which im sure it wouldnt make much of a difference if you were here or there, im sure you know what i mean, because there isnt a whole lot of difference between say sydney australia and london england, well technically there is but essentially there are many similarities, and in the whole picture or scheme of things the differences wouldnt matter a whole lot after you take into account everything. (see what i mean, speculation gone crazy lol).
anyway so in my speculation i think you get to choose a family or situation that you want the most, i dont think it really matters because in the end you have so much karma its like your basically just choosing what you want to deal with first or in which way. (rough explaination anyway)

anyway back to the question, if your asking if there is a specific demigod or god that has a set task to take care of this (like Yamaraja if you remember one fo my earlier posts) i dont actually know or cant remember. Yamaraja has a say in what happens to you after you die but im not sure whether that extends to include who or where you will be born to on this earth etc.
and as far as does anyone know what is likely to happen to you on this earth well, of course god (krisna) knows, he has unlimited power and knowledge there is nothing he cant do or doesnt know. this may be a hard concept to grasp, but in many religions this is a constant, the difference is that in some religions they say god is unlimited but then they turn around and put limits on what he can do. so yeh krisna knows i dont know who else would, there are probably many, there are countless incarnations and gods/demi-gods who i know i havnt even heard of so it is pointless trying to name even the ones i do know and saying "yeh they probably know", there are many many beings that have far higher powers and know a many great things, i mean here on earth there are even stories of people who seem to know some things are going to happen before they do, so im sure there are many who know at least to a certain extent.

its all very complicated and i dont know a whole lot about it. it all seems to me to be like a highly complicated mix and match, trying to fit this with that when there are about a billion different options to fit a million different positions each lol, its like trying to figure out your chances of winning the lottery...
i know what ive written here isnt very accurate at all, jsut speculation so sorry about that, well if you need any help trying to decipher (sp?) what ive written here you can ask lol, i may have digressed (sp?) a little then forgotten to finish what i was saying at a few points, so if you find anything you want to know more about just ask. lol it seems im getting worse and worse at answering your questions anyway i should stop now before i confuse myself,
cya later ;D Radharani (esspess)

[angina]

I voted other because im a hare krishna and i dont really belive it comes under hindu and i and kinda dipping into wicca because i find it really interesting.

[Fuil Dearg]

what's the difference between hinduism and hare krisna?

[esspess]

well in truth hinduism isnt a religious term or a religion, it is really just a provincial term for people from india. but it has kind of just become a term used for people who follow indian religions now. so in truth you can say that hare krishnas are hindus i suppose but i dont because hindu isnt really the word for it. its more a general term used by westerners.

also hare krishnas isnt really the proper name for this religion either, its just what westerners call people who chant the name of krishna, like i said before (i think), it comes from the mantra which begins 'hare krishna...', the proper term for hare krishnas is vaishnavas, for the worshipers/devotees of vishnu/krishna. but people know the name hare krishna so its easier to refer to it using that name, and it is a religious term so its more accurate.

i suppose you could compare saying 'im hindu' to saying 'im a westerner', it doesnt really explain much.

[had]

I'm an atheist. I put myself under 'other' because the categores on this poll are seriously weirded up. "Evolutionist" what the hell?

[craZyaNgel]

technically im a christian but i put 'no beliefs' coz i just dont believe....i think religion seperates people as well as race so i dicide not 2 talk bout it....apart from now...