Ashta's life just exploded... kinda... (PG)

[Never Undressing Sneer]

yer, but what about a girl dating a younger guy?

[Ashta]

noideagirl said:

yer, but what about a girl dating a younger guy?

I've seen it happen... but it seems to work if its a woman and a guy, not really a girl...

But otherwise, i think that it's competely ok!

[Never Undressing Sneer]

thats what i meant, a woman dating a younger guy.

[Raineth]

As long as he's not under eighteen and she's not in a postion of authority over him (like his boss or teacher) It could be O.K.

[Min]

Well, Paul's a year younger than I am...though you wouldn't know it
My boss' wife is about 10 years older than my boss too. They get on really well, and always have.
I think it comes down to maturity, not age.

[Raineth]

Yeah I only said "could be O.K" because alot of other more important factors go into it.

[Lix]

ergh I really really peeved that i cant stand up for what i believe in because it will be taken as a personal attack and anti-christian blah blah
its not fair, athetists should have rights too!

[Raineth]

Ofcourse you do! Its called free speech. As long as you're not going out of your way to offend someone (which I know you're not) then just say what you believe. I'm curious to know.

[shadowoutcast]

you do I have no condemnation for the disigense that you make. I may have my own opinions about it but the nost greatest commandment is to love all as much as I'm love by Jesus. Your entilled to dwell in your choses it not my place to judge

Dame beat me to it Raineth ;D

[Raineth]

I was going to add a bit about giving Shadow more credit. Shadow has his own opinions which he openly discusses but he accepts and respects others opinions.

I was going to say it, I didn't, so I have now.

[Lix]

whats ur computer doing to your typing. they cant be just typos.
and ur really cheezing me off by writing "you're entitled to dwell" or what u would have written if something hadnt gone wrong there. i'm not dwelling. dwelling has negative connotations. im delighted to be able to express my love in a physical way. I just get sick of people who go on about it being sinful when i know it cant be. not when im in the relationship im in.

Maybe this discussion should move elsewhere if its going to continue, i don't think its appropriate for younger members, nor to be on a public forum.

[shadowoutcast]

I'm going to cry I'm getting burned for my beliefs... all I was trying to get across was my thinking I don't mind if you go have a physical with someone you love I have no bias against it you have all the right to experience what you so rightfully desier I don't main to annoy you. I just believe there is more to it then the physical.

Plus I'm not into the soapbox biz I don't condem. like I siad I'm no judge.

Plus I'm dyslexic I don't like my sudden lack of vocab to be pointed out

Also could someone move this to the members section this is get to far in to greyness.

[Never Undressing Sneer]

elixa said:

its not fair, athetists should have rights too!

D.A.M.N RIGHT they should!!!

[shadowoutcast]

I have come to the conclusion that you people have your ears sealled over with something.

[Raineth]

I think discussions like this are always appropriate. We're not talking in graphic detail. People are discussing and talking about their beliefs on the topic of relationships. Sometimes people need to look for the innocence in what other people are saying.

[Roland]

Guys! This is getting really mean! A lot of nasty things are being said unnecessarily.

What SO is saying makes sense. He is entitled to his own opinion and beliefs, and he is entitled to respect them. At no stage has he said anyone elses beliefs are wrong, I think he was trying to just engage in a discussion.

It really cheeses me off when non-christians go on the attack towards those with religous beliefs, and say broad things like "I can't stand up for what I believe in because it will be seen as anti-christian". That statement is of itself anti-christian because it makes the assumption that as a group we (yes I am a believer) are somehow imbeciles, incapable of having reasoned discussion. That's not the case at all. You're a wonderful, intelligent person Lix, (even though right now, I'm a little grumpy, I'll admit) I'd love to discuss your views with you and others on this board (who I consider to be a group of friends) so that when it comes time for me to make similar choices I will be the wiser for it.

And frankly, insulting someone's grammer/typing skills like that was a little low, and I'm a little unimpressed Lix. I know I'm new compared to you, but constructive criticism is fine, implying someone is doing it deliberately is not. Especially when you yourself weren't exactly using perfect grammer.

Goodness, sorry I didn't mean to come in and say all this, but I just think this whole thing has got much to personal, and much too grumpy. The thing I love about this boards is the cheerful nature, and the fact the everyone's opin=ion is respected. I like you all very much and I want you to be kind to each other!

[Lix]

see what i mean i type what i think and everyone jumps on me
1. i wasnt trying to make a big deal of ur typing i was curious to see if somehow the computer has rearranged something, it looked like a pattern was forming. i didnt mean it to sound mean and im sorry if this was what made this go personal or whatever. That was seperate to the debate.

2. sounding anti-christian ok so how can i make a statement without it sounding personal or generalised? I'm not trying to pick of christians. My partner's best friend doesnt believe in sex before marriage and we have very interesting discussions about that. on the other hand i know a lot of christians who do it anyway and get themselves all twisted with guilt for doing so. its so hard to explain what i mean without it being able to be interpreted in a way other than what i mean. but i dont mean christians because there's no other way to describe the sort of person im thinking of, theyre not a specific denomination or anything.

im not going to burn in hell because there is no hell. sadly all those rapists muderers etc will go unpunished in an afterlife, but they usually get what they deserve in life.

back to the discussion, i dont understnad why sex is forbidden. denying yourself doesnt mean that people arent going to get rapred, or pressured into it anyway. just because you choose not to doesnt mean everyone will.

I feel really bad, im so sorry if ive insulted you shadow outcast, that wasnt my intention. I tend to debate a little more firey that others but I wasnt trying to be personal about it. This was possibly as a result of your choice of words which made me feel as if you were talking down to me because I didnt share the same beliefs as you. If you want to end this discussion thats fine. i understand because its gone down the wrong track i fear, no doubt as a result of the unpersonal (or is that immpersonal, whatever!) nature of the medium that is the internet.
peace i hope!

[Roland]

*hugs Lix* well said! I'm sorry if I made you sad too!

[shadowoutcast]

elixa said:

back to the discussion, i dont understnad why sex is forbidden. denying yourself doesnt mean that people arent going to get rapred, or pressured into it anyway. just because you choose not to doesnt mean everyone will.

I feel really bad, im so sorry if ive insulted you shadow outcast, that wasnt my intention.

Thank for the applogy it wasn't need as I don't hold grudes but the the first part.

I don't think that sex is forbidden I just think it has more than just a phyisical side of it. I believe there is a more 'my body is a temple' thing to it (Yes this metaphor is in the bible somewhere in Acts I think). I'm also going off stats and reacounts of peoples experences with relationships and having sex before marrage. But thats whats what I was talking about (or placing up for discussion) I was just point out the last factor of the human race.

To use imagary

If you glue to slabs of wood together firmly and then tare them apart stuff from both slabs stick to the other. If you then do the same with another and tare it apart you get more bits.

To reality

Think of two people they have a good relationship with someone and then in the heat of the momment the go for it thing what the hey it's not harmful. After this they feel fine, but a month or two later they brake up and one of them finds another and the same thing happens. Emotional baggage and other things are still with that person when they were with when they're with the new person which in effect they get more bits.

What I'm saying is that my view of sex is for one person and one person alone not everyone that you have some feelings for just to see if those feelings will last to some point down the track. If you have varied thought I'd like to hear them and will not jump up and down shouting "NOT LISTENING, NOT LISTENING" I just hate it when people do that. What ever your opinion that is your and that is what make you, I don't wish you to change just to suit my thought I like debates.

_{Applogies to anyone I have offended with what I have just posted}

[Raineth]

If you just think statistically about this, it might help. No one will ever get 100% of people agreeing with a statement. If you think about it, you'd be lucky to get about 50% of people agreeing with you. But mixed up in it all would be a percentage of people who are indifferent and a percentage who really disagree and find the statement offensive and so on. So if you prepare yourself for this before you make it, you won't be so worried about people "jumping" on you. You'll know that some people will agree with you and some won't, its the nature of things.

So I'm glad to hear more of what you believe in Elixa. And maybe you will have noticed that you might have been doing some of the "jumping on" yourself.

[Swallow]

Oh! Theology discussion! Sorry, i love getting into these, theology is a pet love of mine.... even though i don't really sit with any religion.

Sex before marriage... well, if you want to look at it from a history perspective (which you have to take into account with nearly every religion) it made a lot of sense. In those days contraceptive wasn't exactly as easy as you can get it nowadays (well duh ) so it made sense. No sex before marriage ensured that any children that were born would be raised in a family. Would hopefully be supported. I honestly believe that whoever came up with that was thinking along those lines. Had the best interest of the children at heart. So, like a lot of texts out there, these writings did not change over time, and so became doctrine. And instead of people rejoicing in what sex is, and the differences in every person, sex became almost taboo... (what do i mean, almost?) if you want a really interesting read into it, i would look at what happened in Ireland, esp. during the Victorian era. They went from free-loving free-expression practically female led people to repressed individuals.

Now, it can be argued that sex, and the bible, was used as a form of control, esp. throughout history. I won't get into modern times, because that's kinda dangerous territory, esp. from what i've been reading up here. But sex can deffinately be used as a means of control, i mean, what is rape about? Making people feel guilty about it is all keyed into getting people to come back to church every Sunday. Same with how they used fear. I mean, what is Hell but a form of fear? If you actually read into the text, Lucifer was simply an angel who didn't agree with God as to how Earth should be run. Depending on what you read, he was either p!ssed off that the angels didn't get to feel the way humans did (in otherwords, humans got a choice on belief, Angels had too believe) or he couldn't stand the fact that humans died, yet angels lived on... either way, he sounds a bit more on the compassionate side than the fire and brimstone weilding monster we keep getting told to believe in....

Anyway, i'm rambling... i just want to make sure you guys note that i'm not trying to attack anyone personally, if this is read that way, i'm sorry. I'm all for beliefs, in fact, i can be quite jealous of some people who have them. There are many ways of having a belief, and i think people here are handling it the best way. And that is to sit back and listen to what others say and not push ideas onto everyone else. I hope we can keep this going!

I personally can't believe in any organised religion, so i suppose i am agnostic, just so you know my stance...

[shadowoutcast]

ok I believe people have got their wired crossed or just the wrong information. Sex and relationships are rejoiced within the bible if you have no clue as to were start in Song of Songs. (Solomon depening on translation) Love and relationships as discribed by the 'songs' of both the man and woman in this book of the old testement show that becomming in love is a development within your life not just a stage.

Also there is a warning involed. (this is a biblical text of which is my first and last resource)

Song of Songs 2:7 (The Message)

Oh, let me warn you sisters in Jerusalem, by the gazelles, yes by all the wild deer: Don't excite love, don't stir it up, until the time is ripe - and you're ready

Also what is this bit about fear tactics, it was us as humans that disided to do that it was not the entention. The arugement to this point is void it is a well know fact the many passages from the Bible can be turned into what ever is wanted to be believed, the people how started the 'Fear of God' got it wrong to be in 'Fear' of God is to be in awe or Addiation (mainly do to a wrong translation. As well the infomation about Lucifer is incorrect. That is actually noted as a name for a once Babylon King Before Babylons fall some many years ago, the only mention of that name within the bible is Revelations 2:5.

As for guilt we all feel it for something we all have a concsince (ok some bet theirs down to submission) And I have guilts but it not my reason for to have faith I see may faith as my freedom (I have no idea how else to explain it because fankly I don't think some of you will understand what I mean).

I suggest that if you haven't every read anything from the Bible before because you have your own assuptions of what you might find in it. Pick up The Message By Eugene H. Peterson. This is a biblical paraphrase that translates the 'thou shalt' in to something readable by regular public. Or just as easily you could read a NIV.

Another not is that when starting that with the Gosples Matthew, Mark, Luke and John then continue to where you feel.

If you don't fell the need to pick up a Bible for your own reasons that is your chose. I have no bias towards you one way or the other.

oh and something else is you don't have to be 'holy' or anything to read the bible. By faith I'm just as bad as anyone in the books for damnation but I believe because of experience more than anything

[avra]

As the most inarticulate person in the world, I'm going to limit my responses to a couple of very short sentences and not try and explain my views really, because I'd just suck at doing that.

1) I think people end up with emotional baggage from past relationships independant of whether they slept with that person.

2) SO, you said sex is not for "everyone that you have some feelings for just to see if those feelings will last to some point down the track." (damn Quick Reply box without the cool quote function) I get that; it's seems a valid view point, but I think you would find many people who don't share your religious beliefs that would also agree with that statement. That's certainly not what sex is to me either.

3) And, if sex is for one person and one person alone, why should you have to be married first? I don't get that. Isn't be engaged to be married enough?

Again, I'm not trying to be all "YOU'RE WRONG AND THIS IS WHY, SO NYAH!" but this is interesting for me, as a friend of mine has similar beliefs to yours, SO, but that person seems so blinded to the fact that anyone else could believe anything else, which makes it stupidly hard to discuss. So, I'm curious to find out a bit more about what's behind it, from someone like yourself.

[shadowoutcast]

Cool I'm happy to share my view with anyone that is open minded as I am to but just stubbon on taking the stuff in.

to anwser the statment in order

1) I used the term emotional baggage as a 'simulation' to what I think with involes both the phyical and sprital side to sex and relationships

2) I had this done for mainly the effect of fictional moives and fasion (not that these are bad I just think people taking it to far) and people who get themselves messed up in affairs (aka adultery but ...) and such. But the same thing happen when someone is 'attacked' it leaves them feeling as if someone stole something from them (in the majority of cases not all) making them less 'whole' then they felt before.

3) Being engaged is to see if you can deal with each other on a more "Right if I do this I'm going to have to put up with this for the rest of my life." type of think a more deaper way of getting to know the person you have disided to spend the rest of you life with (I'm a tradtional man if I'm going to say 'Till death sparates us" and so forth then I'm going to mean it. ) Marrage is the scared step and is the momment when you get to forfill the first act of 'Chearishing' the one you love.

Also the act of marrage is not for everyone and I understand that even the Aposile Paul chose to not build a relationship with someone other than Christ.

But once again your chose is your chose, you make up your mind I'll be happy to discuss anything with anyone on anything involving something that is likely to create a riot.

[Talmina]

i agree that you should be in a relationship before you let things get physical, but i dont see why a ceremony and a piece of paper make it more moral, especially considering that marriage isnt really that much of a lifelong committment anymore. if i get married (which i probably will) it wont be to to make it official in the name of god or anything, but a celebration of how much i love the man i am marrying and stuff. i dont believe that i need to make sure my relationship is sanctioned by god or anything like that, though i do agree that IT should be an expression about how you feel about one another, not just temporary satisfaction. and yes i did have to learn this the hard way.

i also agree with avra that it doesnt matter how physical a relationship is there is going to be baggage at the end of it. in my experience the baggage comes from the emotional rather than the physical. so if you love someone yet only go as far as hugging them and holding their hand, it CAN mess you up more than an intense physical relationship.

on the other hand regrets about doing things that werent as right as they felt can mess you up quite a bit as well. but life is learning, thats what i beleive, that our souls are here in these bodies to learn a particular lesson, or lessons and we have to go through life and do our best to learn our lessons. thats why if i learn from something, i dont really regret it