dames vs rushton

[basicneeds]

*fell out of loop AGAIN*

emi267 - ok there is a time when he was all happy and care free.. when Elf finally admitted she loved him, he was excstatic! he really does love her i think he is sorta of just a reall guy about it and cant show it wich makes it hard for us to read into what he is thinking. i mean we cant see what he is thinking or look in his eyes when he is thinking about her can we! and that is how you really know. i mean from what she said in TKP that he was like a basic but essential need.... i really do think she would be crushed if she lost him.
i think she might love Dames but...it isnt what everyone is thinkin it doesnt seem like it would be more. i mean he is like the older brother and friend and...i dont thinlk she sees him any more than that. when they first met it was Matthew she looked at not him. and when she DID look at him what did she see? a kind gentle person who she would be able to trust... NOT some one she would fall in lvoe with. ok ok i admit that first impressions can be misleading (like when she met rushton) but i really think they are ment for each other.
but if her and Dameon do end up being together i wouldnt mind, nor be surprised.

[esspess]

hhmmm ...
i agree with most of that except i would b crushed if she ended up with dameon coz i am TOTALLY in love with rushton even tho he gets annoying from time 2 time ...but dont get me wrong dameon is 1 of my favs too but he is more like 1 of those ppl u look up 2 and admire as a friend or like familly. hes elspeths person..the 1 she can go 2 no matter wat to hav a talk and a cry..if he was her man she couldnt do that its like a different sort of relationship...anyway i still rekon rushton and elspeth r made 4 each other and shuld b together...and its obvious elspeth doesnt have those feelings 4 dameon so it would b unfair 4 him 2 be the runner up... and besides rushton and elspeth hav been through so much just to finally be together already and hav never really had time just 2 be with 1 another itd b soo sad if they didnt end up 2gether finally

ive only been a member for a few days but im the arguementative type so i rekon i might try and give Emi a run 4 her money so....
i would just like 2 say that sometimes its not best 2 be able 2 say everything 2 each other in a relationship..i dont mean telling lies or anything but u gotta keep em guessing or else theyll get bored. and wat im trying 2 say by this is that u sometimes hav 2 keep somethings 2 urself, not 2 bottle em up just 2 hav a personal aspect of ur life, even from ur partner coz if they always knew everything ud hav nothing 2 talk about, conversations would run dry..the relationship would die... there has got 2 b an element of mystery especially when elspeths involved its like her MO (or watever that thing is).
people love to prove themselves its like human nature and they just dont get the same satisfaction out of getting things easy...victory always tastes sweeter after a hard battle... thats why rushton and elspeth will always strive for eachothers love.. i think elspeth would get bored of dameon, as much as she says she wants her life 2 b simple she gets aggitated and then has 2 b off somewhere following some quest.. she needs 2 b the 1 pulling away and rushton likes to be the 1 to hold on. if there is nothing for them 2 pull away from or hold on to, respectively, they would get bored. they thrive off each other.

its always the way in social groups people strive for the attention of those that it is hardest to receive it off. hav any of you heard the sayings "treat em mean to keep em keen" or "you gotta be cruel to be kind" ??

also i think rushton and elspeth hav both got a lot 2 learn and can probably learn from each other and grow together. and i kno u dameon lovers out there think that if he and elf were together hed b much more understanding and stuff than rushton well..heres wat i think (always assuming u care).. its always harder to see things when your in the thick of it than when your being a spectator...., so i think it is unfair 2 judge rushton and say he is being sooky and all..coz if dameon was in the position i think he would be hurt just as much rushton as it would b him she couldnt turn 2 then, it would b him she had 2 keep secrets from... its less hard 2 keep a secret from a friend than your life partner as its your partner you hav 2 leave behind then worry if they will still b there, where as friends r friends for ever no matter wat if they r tru friends.

and...i dont think the fact that dameon is an empath would help at all... coz he cant even drop his barrier around her coz her feelings r so intense.. she has such large issues 2 worry about her emotions r always goin ballistis.. to get too close and let his sheild down would be too much pain for him too feel coz it would b amplified as he is an empath. if he had 2 be around her being the receiver of her shotty emotions all the time i think he would get overloaded.

umm...i think ive written quite alot already here so id better drop it or ill go for ever.. lol i dont even kno if wat i was saying made any sense or flowed it kinda just came out that way so probably just rambling lol.

p.s. i didnt go 2 as much trouble as u emi for quotes and such but i hope i lived up 2 ur long winded standards lol... i rekon if any1 were 2 crack elfs emotional block itd b u!! u would bug her until she finally cracked and spilled the whole lot * elspeth shouts *"for Luds sake Emi its none of ur business, i dont need a lecture i hav a dozen others trying 2 controll me i just dont need this right now...cant a person hav any privacy around here..ur as bad as lina if not worse...its hard enough having to go on a life threatenning quest to destroy the weaponmachines without...." *stops aghast, realizing she's just broken her vow of secrecy to Atthis* lol anyway im out toodles ;D

[basicneeds]

LOL i agree with what you said about ehr relationship with dameon being different to her one with Rushton. she doesnt love him like hse loves rushton. they are clsoe friends end of story fullstop.
i also agree that id be sad if they didnt stay together i mean come on! it was obvious from the start thye are ment for each other. in a relationship you just dont share everything with some on you just dont there isnt any reasoning behind it and well if you share everything your partner may think you treat them first and foremost as a friend and think you dont love them, which she does!
esspess - you are my new friend becuase you voiced what i was trying to say in my last posts

[Min]

Guys - WHY does Elspeth love Rushton? She doesn't even know what the feeling is when she's analysing it in Farseekers. It's a mixture of fear, trepidation, and an attraction, sure. There's jealousy when Freya pops up.
I wouldn't put that sort of fear and love in the same basket, in all honesty.

When she thinks of Dameon, she's thinking of security, friendship, and she falls into his arms for comfort when she's upset.
That's love, whether she admits it or not.

Elspeth's just got no idea what she's really feeling.
So, why would you say Elspeth loves Rushton, other than her "saying" it (and remember - pretty much nothing Elspeth says is right or true, on the quest front, and who knows what else...)?
And I don't mean answer with "she loves him because he's such a wonderful leader" etc. That's an assumption. I'm saying use exactly what we're given in the books to explain why Elspeth loves Rushton. How she interacts with him. How she talks to him. Etc. Compare it to the relationship she shares with Dameon - how she interacts and talks to him.

Coz I can keep talking til the cows come home about WHY she loves Dameon.

[Maryon]

Maybe not knowing why she is in love with him (Rushton) shows a deeper sort of love than knowing exactly what she is dealing with. I also agree with esspess on the fact that she needs something to strive for. Her quest basically consumes her life. Rushton draws her mind away from that quest, which is probably a good thing; we all know it's not good for us to dwell on something too long.

And you may say that Dameon is better for her than Rushton, but it is equally easy to argue the opposite . Dameon is a completely different kettle of fish to Rushton; he's a bit too good at hiding his emotions and wouldn't demand anything in a relationship with Elspeth. She needs something to hold onto. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger - I'd say it's the same with Elf and Rushton.

And for those who don't believe this is justification enough, let's take a step back and look at the other relationships in the books; I'm sure a Dragon-Matthew union is considered a given among many members of this community, yet what is to justify it? He was kind to her in the Farseekers then discarded her. There is really nothing to justify a relationship between them. And how about Dardelan-Bruna? Bruna admires him, but the main factor is sheer attraction. There are other relationships from which I can draw the same conclusion.

So, Dameon-Elspeth? If you ask me it's a little too well defined for a strong relationship. But everyone has their own opinion and I'm not about to tell them their wrong. Any one of us could be wrong. I'm just stating my view along with the rest.

*Steps back*

[Min]

Dameon's forced to hide his emotions. He's an empath, and he's forced to (can you imagine what that feels like?!). Because of respect for Elsepth's decisions. That's love.

Not knowing why she's in love with him only strengthens our (Dameon supporters) arguments. Until someone can tell me why Elspeth is in love with Rushton, I'll continue to tell you why she's in love with Dameon.

She needs something to hold onto, just like you said. Wait a sec...wasn't Rushton completely out of the loop for most of the series? He wasn't there when she needed him, and he sulked when she wasn't doing what he wanted her to do? How can she hold onto him? And by hold on, I'm talking about rely on, look forward to seeing, relate to, strive for, etc.

Here's something to hold onto:
The Keeping Place - first chapter - Elspeth carrying around Dameon's letter wherever she goes, so she can read whenever she has a chance. Because she misses him more than she could imagine.
Ashling: Elspeth is sad, Dameon consoles her. Many times. While Rushton utters the famous, utterly disgusting-which-I-will-never-forgive-him-for; Well this is cosy.
The Keeping Place, again - EVERYONE, including Elspeth, desperately wanting Dameon to come back from Sador. Oh, and Rushton's kidnapped? That's a shame...

My point that I'm trying to get across is that Elspeth does love Dameon. She holds on to him, she relies on him more than she does Rushton (because, frankly, Rushton's never there), she longs read his words and keep updated on his life.

That's LOVE.

Dameon-Elspeth is too well-defined? What's that supposed to mean? What's wrong with having a relationship - even in fiction - that actually works?

Sorry Rora I'm not attacking you, I'm just getting the debate going again as you said, everyone's entitled to their opinion, I'm just continuing to validate mine.

[esspess]

YAY...fun!!
oohh lots of nice points but i was never saying that elspeth doesnt love dameon, but she isnt IN love with him. there is a difference! and why we RUshton lovers have to find an explanation for why elf loves him! i mean its love does love have to have a definition.. love doesnt follow rules or regulations it just IS..just coz there is more reasons for her to love Dameon doesnt mean she will...u cant control or choose who u fall in love with...if u culd im sure youd be like "yep i want the hot guy with a great humor sympathetic nice friendly reliable rich..." etc but then u wuld never fall in love coz its unrealistic you wouldnt find a guy like that (unless you were really lucky).
So THERE Elf lis IN love with Rushton and its undefinable, uncontrolable, unacountable, unchangeable LOVE as much as Dameon is the perfect guy and probably deserves Elf more she cant help who she loves.
anyway thats MY opinion others out there might feel the same but Min u need not change your opinion "everyone to their" i mean no offence against Dameon though coz hes great but GO Rushton!!

PS thanks Basicneeds i really dont kno many people around here yet so thats kool.

[Min]

It's not good enough saying "She's in love with Rushton just...because".

You can control who you spend your time with, who you're friends with, and who you fall in love with. When you find the right one, it's not "oh it just happened. We were meant to be". That's a fairy-tale sort of ending. The right one has common interests, can talk to you openly about anything, you rely on them, they rely on you, etc. There is always a reason that people are together - even just to learn something from each other.

I posed the question "WHY does Elspeth love Rushton" mainly because there are so many counter reasons why Elspeth loves Dameon. It's in her interactions, her thoughts, a lot of things we read right in front of us.
I'm confused as to why she's even with Rushton.

When I think about it...it might come down to threat. Elspeth thinks she's a threat, that she's going to leave everything behind. Think about this though - she mustn't love Rushton that much if she's prepared to leave him - and not return - because of her quest. That shows devotion in her life, not in a shared life with him.

So, in the subconscious projection of Elspeth's mind, she's not with Dameon because she doesn't want to possibly have to leave him and break his heart, or lose him. Because Dameon means so much more to her. And don't say that's not true - she relies on Dameon more than any other person in the Chron.

And I beg to differ. Elspeth IS in love with Dameon. It's as clear as day, the way she's so reliant on him and so relieved when he's around. I'm waiting in earnest for the next book for another moment of contemplation, when Elspeth realises that this fantastic relationship, the combination of brilliant friendship, loyalty, devotion, acceptance of her own life and abilities, and everything else that Dameon does so brilliantly, is actually stronger than the love she has for Rushton. Because while Rushton's love is strained and awkward (or it seemed that way at the end of TKP), Dameon and Elspeth's love has far deeper, stronger roots winding into her heart.

*sigh* I hope that's what happens, anyway...

[basicneeds]

ok the reason she cant explain what she feels for Rushton is because she lvoes him. tehre are some emotions to big for words and when you put words to them it makes them smaller than what they are. what she feels for him is more than love and she cant find the words to describe that, she NEEDS him she even says so.

i hear the point about ehr carrying around Dameons letter to read, but didnt she also treasure Rushtons letter in The Keeping Place?

i agree with Espess just because she has mroe reasons to lvoe him doesnt mean she will. i mean there are plenty of reasons she loves Rushton
- im asumming he looks wonderful (just my thought )
-when he is there he is there for her, she can always talk to him. when she was sitting infront of the fire it was Rushton she wanted there to comfort her NOT Dameon
-she can feel his presence. she can sense when he is near her or so she said anyway

these are a few im goign to re-read the books so i can make mroe points!
and if she did realise she was in love with Dameon, what would become of Rushton?
he'd be totally heart broken at losing her. could she live with the guilt of having caused that?? i think not!

[esspess]

min said:

When I think about it...it might come down to threat. Elspeth thinks she's a threat, that she's going to leave everything behind.

wat do u mean she thinks she is a threat so thats why she loves him, it doesnt make sense 2 me so if you would be so kind Min could you possibly clear that up for me please?
and yes its true that the whole 'its just true love' thing sounds a bit tacky and like a fairytale but...well it is a fiction novel. i got mush for brains so gooey thoughts are a given. ;D
Anyway i agree with basicneeds . ok well if anyone would like proof ill try. Elf did hold on to rushtons message in TKP as well as dameons, and the reason she needed dameons comfortng so bad was coz she was distraught over loosing rushton, Elf risked her life going into Dragons mind to save him..even though she was meant to be doin quest work she couldnt help but worry about rushton all the time..then when she found him she held on for dear life even though she had no idea if either her or him would make it, and that she could possible be throwing her whole quest out the window.
and for thos of you who call rushton a sook a melancholy whiny baby, well i think its coz he loves elf so much and it breaks his heart to have to let her go, but he never actually holds he back..there was even that time ( i forget which book i think it was Ashling) where he really didnt want her to go away but he said he had the feeling she would have to leave him again soon and although he wasnt happy he wouldnt disagree.

anyway i always got the feeling when reading the books that IC was purposeully not showing the personal relationship between elf and rushton coz they were during more settled times, and she cant be showing us every second of their lives shes gotta cut to the chase. its always like a year or 2 inbetween each book and she kind of picks the story up when there is something about to happen like a journey or something. so we dont really get to see their relationship much but elspeth does mention or reminisce times spent with rushton, like their walks in the forest and such, but truthfully wat does that have to do with the story line you only need to see a bit to get the gist.
ive rambled enough so cya's

[basicneeds]

*screams in frustration* i had this huge post and grrr oh well lol *as if that explains things*

When she came out of dragons mind did she rush of for dameon to comfort her of this experiance? no she went and sta by Rushton. she couldnt or wouldnt leae him then what makes you think she woudl do it to be with Dameon?

If the person you loved kept rushing of to do all these quests and kept risking ehr life and kept getting into all teh trouble that elf does wouldnt you whine and be srtessful and upset eerytime they went out on ANOTHER one of these quests? when you know full well she will put herself at risk and get in so much trouble? i know i certainly would.

yeah she is always thinking of him espeacially in TKP i noticed when she was bathing up in the caves it wasnt dameons ahnds she wanted pressing on her hips

[Min]

esspess said:

min said:

When I think about it...it might come down to threat. Elspeth thinks she's a threat, that she's going to leave everything behind.

wat do u mean she thinks she is a threat so thats why she loves him, it doesnt make sense 2 me so if you would be so kind Min could you possibly clear that up for me please?

I thought I had explained it in the rest of the post, but I'll do so again.

Elspeth has been told since she was younger that she's going to have to be prepared to leave and lose everything to complete her quest. So she didn't want to form any relationships on the basis that there was the threat there that she'd have to leave whoever she got close to in the end (sort of like "what's the point? I'm only going to leave them"). She changes her mind and decides to live for the moment I think in Ash? Farseekers? But living for the moment isn't living for the future. In that, sure, she cares about Rushton, but she knows he'll be able to handle it if she has to leave him for her quest.
As for Dameon, I think Elspeth cares more about him than that, to ever do that to him.

And no, no, no! ;D You can't get out of explaining WHY Elspeth loves Rushton just because you think the reasons are 'too big for words'. That's NOT what I'm asking!! I'm saying LOOK what's in the books. What are we given? Not what we assume!

Someone brought up then that she carries around Rushton's letter as well in TKP - THERE'S a reason she loves him.

All I'm saying is there's MORE reasons as indicated in the book that she's in love with Dameon than Rushton, she just hasn't REALISED it yet.

And sure, we don't see their private times - but when we do see them (with the exception of possibly the fireplace scene) they're short with each other and always at odds / strained, mainly because Elspeth wants to do something, and Rushton thinks it's too dangerous. Indicating that Rushton either a) doesn't trust her ability to do anything or b) wants to cage her from the world. Eventually, Elspeth will get frustrated with this.

With Dameon though, every moment IS a private time, whether there are other people in the midst of them or not. They are sensitive to one another. They communicate a whole lot better.

When she came out of Dragon's mind, she wanted to know how Rushton was. She didn't need comforting from the experience because she suffered the least from it - she knew others, who she cares about (namely, Rushton and Dragon) needed her more. It wouldn't have been any different if it'd been Matthew, Ceirwan, Gevan, Kella, anyone else. Saving Rushton from Dragon's dreams is not a sign of love - it's a sign of friendship.

So in the end I'm not saying she DOESN'T love, or at least care for, Rushton. I'm saying that deep down, she is in LOVE with Dameon more. The signs are EVERYWHERE.

Is that clarification enough?

esspess said:

and yes its true that the whole 'its just true love' thing sounds a bit tacky and like a fairytale but...well it is a fiction novel. i got mush for brains so gooey thoughts are a given. ;D

It's not a romance novel, though. It's a piece of fiction, that deals with some very serious issues on a fantasy backdrop.
How common is the scenario (in real life) that one of a couple falls for the other's best friend? VERY common.

[Dameon]

Everything Min said.

I was going to weigh in on the argument, but Min has basically said everything I have to say on the subject. Elspeth says she loves Rushton, but what Min's asking (and what I'm asking) is when does she ever SHOW us that. When does she ever act in a way that suggests Rushton is more important to her than anyone else. It's not enough to point to things like her caring about him being kidnapped and missing him when he's not around, because a) the same would have applied/does apply to Dameon and b) these are friendship feelings, or can be.

The question with love is when Elspeth has shown, not told but SHOWN us how much Rushton means to her. In TKP, she has to TELL HERSELF she misses him. She has to remind herself to miss the man she loves? What the hell?

Whereas Dameon she just misses, in a very real, constant sense.

So... show us an example of that feeling, that kind of emotion, where Rushton is concerned. Because we in the Dameon camp just don't see it.

[fearless-falcon]

listen up you guys theres no way elf can not go with rushton coz........... coz she just can't he's like the only choice okay end of story THE END
go rushton yaaaaaaaaaaaaay

[Miky]

*wanders in* i have been away for ages coz of school. i know i am in year 11 not twelve but its killing me! so naturally this is the first thread i come to when i have time. i am sorry i dont have time to read everything over but i am pretty well versed on this subject... to the max....

anyways you would have to be blind ( hehehe pun) not to see dames love, however it is always the arguement that she does not love him. in the spirit of diplomacy i am not (today) going to go into a usual rushton bashing phase but rather try to support my view with some texual evidence.


first of all what reallystirs anger in most dameon fans is rushtons arrogant nature. which is examplified on page 393-4 in ahling

its when elspeth breaks down to dameon about matthew

" 'dameon...'
he shook his head and gathered me into his long arms. 'i know'

he patted my back as if i was a very young child or frightened animal, his empathic talent wrapping me in a warm blanket of affection and reassurance. I was dimly suprised to find he had erected an empathic barrier between us. he must have sensed i would not want my emotions bared to him.

'matthew has been taken,' he sed gently, 'but no slaver or shackle will hold him for long. he will return, just as he swore he would, as full of gosip and wild stories as ever.'

listening to his soft accents, i felt for the first time that it might truly be so.

"well this is touching," rushton sed from the door. "when you have finished the tender reconciliations , perhaps you will spare us a moment.' "




the first time i read this what struck me was rushtons arrogant and clearly jealous nature, and over time i have developed my thoughts. firstly rushton never offers elf comfort on matthew. he doesnt ask her, or try to console, and she in no way makes any move to confide in him. she does however in beautiful dames.

of course to most dames fans the imfamous " this is touching" is the embodiment of our dislike. it confirms his arrogance and reckless jealousy that not only prompts him to be hharsh towards the one "he loves" but also to be callously mean to dameon- who is completely innocence. it also highlights his possessive nature which elspeth likens to being caged.

now most rush fans claim this is further proof of his love. that he is jealous and acted like most people would. I think he is pettulant. i mean dames show a thousand times more love by giving her free will and allowing her choice rather then hurting her and playing childish games. i mean isnt that love? loving her so much he will do whatever it takes to make her happy, even if its at the price of his own happiness?

rushton however is content to lay on the guilt, especially at the end of ashling, seriously its just whing whinge whinge. Dames has too much love to put elf through emotional black mail like that.

i am running out of time so i will just add one other point, tho there are many more. unfortunatley i only have ashling with me. the goodbye scene bewteen dames and elf page 522 of ashling


"saying goodbye to dameon had been harder then i could have ever imagined. I would have opened my mind and heart to him, but he had set a wall between us."


opening her mind and heart to him sounds like mind melding to me. love, yes. i think elf has always been around dames, but not rush. i think that she has confused lust and that exciting feeling u get around ppl u like, which is only intensified when ppl start t play hard to get with true love. true love isnt endlessly worrying what the other person thinks or awkwardness. true love is the perfect comfortableness, openess and freedom that dames and elf have together.


elf just has to realise it

[Fuil Dearg]

miky said:

"well this is touching," rushton sed from the door. "when you have finished the tender reconciliations , perhaps you will spare us a moment.' "

that's just mean of Rushton.

having read that post i'v come to a realisation; Dameon would be waaaaay better for Elspeth, but for the fact that she isn't in love with him. If she ever finds out that she actually is in love with him or falls in love then dameon is better for Elspeth. without contest. (ok mebe a little contest but the point is he wouldn't win.) I.C. never writes much about Elpeth's and Rushton's romantic experiences together. Mostly, they are hinted at and/or implied. Maybe, this is because the books are for a young audience.

[me]

Well of course it is mean! He loves her and walks in and finds her and Dameon hugging. He's not exactly going to be in the best mood. Now, as a former Dameon supporter (please, hear me out, dont shoot me yet) I can understand where everyone is coming from.
Dameon is a kind, caring, wonderful, gorgeous and any other word to that extent that you can think of, person. Who knows and understands Elspeth and has been her friend since she came to Obernewtyn.
And Rushton is moody, grumpy and not that easy to understand. But I think we are forgetting the most important thing. It's fairly obvious that Elf loves Rushton and not Dameon and that Rushton feels the same about her.
You can tell how much she loves him by when he was missing...she couldnt even bring herself to think about him because it distraught her that much.
Now, I know which one of them I would choose and I think that is why most Dameon supporters think he would be best for our beloved heroine. But I think that Elspeth would not be content with Dameon.
She's not exactly an average misfit and I dont think she could be satisfied with an average relationship like she would have with Dameon. And now i've procrastinated writing my essay long enough (although i'll probably find a few more reasons to do so) and I just want to say hi to everyone coz *gasp* i havent been on since last year! No internet connection, then when I finally do way too much schoolwork than can be healthy!
Anyway...Go Rushton!

[Arien]

ok, I'm going to try and explain the 'fear' Elspeth felt when she met Rushton that Min mentioned way up there..
I don't think it was a fear of Rushton himself, but a fear of the attraction she felt towards him. She was only young, and probably had never felt that for anyone before. Not knowing what your emotions are can be scary And I'd say it'd be especially scary for Elspeth- someone who likes to be in control.

I also want to say that yes- I think Elspeth loves Dameon. But I TOTALLY agree with...was it basicneeds? well, someone said it up there...just because you love someone doesn't mean you're in love with them. The fact that Elspeth goes to Dameon for comfort all the time says to me that she only sees him as a close friend- someone she can confide in and thinks will look rationally at what she feels. (even though we know he won't coz he like, loves her big time ;D) Someone like a brother. Here we go, Dameon voice of reason... Dameon and Elf talk- "'I think you are troubled more because of his manner to you, than because he will not let anyone inside his mind.' I wanted to tell him he was talking like a fool, but all at once I was close to tears."

Also, even though Dames loves Elspeth, he has never, ever given HER an indication of it. I mean, come on..Elspeth's..well, not too good at seeing the obvious. Unless she's straight out told something it just doesn't register...
The fact that Dames hasn't told her kinda makes me think that they will never be. If she does deep, deep, deep down have romantic feelings for him (which she toootally doesn't ), the only way they'll be brought to the surface is if Dameon tells her how he feels, and that's not going to happen because he has too much respect for Rushton.

Ok, onto why Elspeth loves/is attracted to Rushton rather than Dames...
Since Elspeth's such a superficial little floozy, one part playing in this is physical attraction. She's physically attracted to Rushton. There's one part somewhere where she's thinking about wanting to feel his hands against her skin or something and then goes all DID I JUST THINK THAT?! bad elspeth! She's not, however, physically attracted to Dames...even though I think this does play a part, I don't think it's that big. but still
And how can you say that Elspeth rescuing Rushton from Dragon's mind doesn't mean she loves him? Of course it does...yes, of course she would have tried to save matty/kella etc as well, but she would've had a totally different motive for saving them. And would she have recognised them? she knew it was Rushton. She knew because she loves him..and his eyes are pretty unmistakable
and to quote Elspeth- (after going to Rushie's bedside) "'My love, I came looking for you and I found you but you must swim this last stretch to me'" and "I leaned over and kissed him on the lips. Summoning the longing of my soul, I called his name with my mind"
Yes. The longing of her soul. For Rushton. Sooo, actually, she couldn't have saved anyone else if they were in that situation. She was only able to save Rushton because she's IN love with him.
Not to mention Elspeth's jealousy of Rushie and Freya...

Anyway, she loves Rushton because of his cold exterior. I know it sounds weird, but I seriously think she's drawn to it. She's a bit like that herself- she can be cold and harsh, and I think she's the kind of person who needs someone to be like that back to her, and then show her how much they love her..if you get me.. She knows Rushton is sincere about his love because he lets her know about it- this unemotional guy actually lets her know he loves her. He doesn't show it too well sometimes, but it's still there

I think you can love someone for no reason as well. Of course, there IS a reason, you just don't know what it is. While most actually do look for common interests, trust, reliability, other things in their partners, sometimes there's just a something that draws two people together.

As to Rushton's comments "Well this is touching" - as if he would say anything else!! It's Rushton! He's not the most sensitive bloke, and he only knows how to block people out. Who knows what he was really feeling under those words? they may have come out as sounding jealous, but maybe what was truly behind them was fear and sadness- he wouldn't want to lose Elspeth to anything. Because he. loves. her. Maybe it doesn't seem like it all the time, but he does.

AND (ok I swear this is my last point.. ;D) Elspeth, even though she knows she'll eventually have to leave, GOT ATTACHED. she didn't mean to, but it happened. It's not a matter of her choosing Rushton because she knows she'd have hurt Dames more than him once she left...
Elf and maruman talk- "'...All wait for Elspeth-Innle to walk the darkroad.' He looked at me. 'Are you so eager to walk it?' I licked my lips and found them dry. 'I don't want to leave Obernewtyn. I love...I love it here. But my whole life has shaped me to go.'"
Ahh..hesitation 'I love...I love it here' mhmm surrre that's what she meant to say. more like 'I love...I LOVE RUSHTON!!!111one'

And I have a question...why does Dameon love Elspeth? Really... he's all nice and sensitive and she's well..not very in touch with her emotions.

Okay I think I've written enough...
WOAH, definately wrote enough. *backs out slowlywhile waving GO RUSHTON flag*

[me]

Whoa....that was long...

I agree, I dont think Dameon and Elf could ever have a long-lasting relationship because they are so opposite. The whole opposites attract thing...well, there's only a limit on how opposite you can be...for example (yes, I have to relate everything back to Harry Potter, just like I have to relate everything back to Obernewtyn) Harry couldn't fall in love with Bellatrix (evil, manipulative slime that doesn't deserve to walk this earth...) because Harry is wonderful and pure of heart and Bellatrix is nearly as evil as Voldemort, although totally spineless and imbecilic. Dameon and Elf couldn't be together because they are exact opposites in too many ways...i'm not saying one of them is evil...they're just different....

I think it's clear to us, if not to Elspeth, that she could never love anyone else...

[esspess]

YAY GO RUSHTON! yes yes yes, exactly what i was trying to get at before arien...right now i love you for that very long speech. (in a purely friendly way, you may even say how elf likes dames [haha they are not in love ])
it seems every 1 is now writing very long speeches on this thread, before everyone was like "what a long speech" but now is not so uncommon. of course thats becuse how can you not on this subject. anyway right now i find arien has said so much i cant think what to add...you wrote all the quotes i was thinking but couldnt remember how they went properly enough to write them excellent take that dames supporters...hehehehe *waves GO RUSHTON flag vigorously*
fuil dearg...come back to the dark side...mwahahaha... ;D

[Hannai]

What we all seem to forget here is the complete irrationality of love. Im not decided either way for Dames or Rushton, but sometimes it seems to me that you dont get a choice in who you love. love just happens.
Im sure Espeth even muses this point somewhere in Ashling- in relation to Dragons love for Matthew.

[Dameon]

Given the very rational, logical and well-written argument presented by Arien, I am left with only one course open to me.

*readies The Foot*

Dameon is the better man, and his love is purest.

*lowers Foot*

The Foot is down, the Kayt has spoken.

[Lauren Hedgehog]

All hail the foot

[Min]

Haha!!! Arguements from Arien!!! Well done, that's what I was looking for ;D
*hands over celebratory rubber haddock*

Congratulations, you've got it making sense in my mind now why Elspeth loves Rushton

But it doesn't mean I have to like it, or agree with it - it just means that we have some idea why Elspeth could possibly love that stubborn, brooding git now

Why does Dameon love Elspeth? I'd say it's for her strength. And despite it. In that, despite her strength, she still feels, for all she tries to hide it. Dameon's a very emotive being and knowing that Elspeth thinks that she's got to keep her feelings in check...well, it'd make an Empath want to help her. Seeing that Elspeth turns to him when she's in trouble or feeling sad...that's the basis of a dependancy. She depends on him. He needs to be stronger for her sake.
He loves her because she's so strong, powerful, but in the end, still needs him. It's nice to feel needed.

*hails the foot*
that about sums it up.

[Arien]

Ahh, I see. Elspeth is like the un-breakable code that Dameon can, in a way, break. He's the one who sees the true emotions behind her stony exterior. He sees a part of her no one else sees

*waves rubber haddock around with Rushton flag*