MajiKat
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 9, 2006 19:08:11 GMT 11
Christianity is not a religion for me, it is a lifestyle. it is the same for me, but in relation to being a pagan/witch, as opposed to a Christian. the way i live my life comes down to what i believe and how i act through that belief. All I know is that looking nature and the world, stars, sun, moon, there is no doubt in my mind, God had to have made such a complex universe. To come from nothing is ... unthinkable. that is how i feel about my faith - the goddess is in everything around us. it is something that i am so aware of - i cannot just walk by or witness an amazing thing in nature without thinking of Her. however, i do not really have much thought on how the universe came into being - i tend to follow the more scientific way of thinking, but also acknowledge that the tiny chemicals that brought about such amazing change had to come from somewhere...to a Christian, it is God. to me, it is different. i like to think that the world somehow came into being because it was time for it happen, and life created itself because it was time, and all life is under the protection and guidance of the Mother Goddess and the Father God of nature. so i guess in that sense i do believe in the idea and process of evolution, but not without the spiritual aspect aswell. religion and science co-exist for me. |
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had
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Post by had on Nov 9, 2006 20:02:52 GMT 11
..Which were written roughly a hundred years after the events they claim to chronicle (NT, not OT), by people that weren't eyewitnesses. There is no historical evidence for Jesus. Sorry, but it's true. There are no (definite) mentions of a guy called Jesus in the historical record until past about 200 CE. There is one bit apparently written by a guy called Josephus - a historian under the employ of the Romans - that mentions him, from about 70 CE, IIRC, but it's almost certainly an interpolation - it was written in later. Josephus talks about Jesus entirely too glowingly for someone that is working for the Romans. I'm not sure if I've had the "Here's the evidence for the Big Bang in exhaustive detail" conversation on this site yet, but I think this is neither the time nor place. I'll just point out that the Big Bang did NOT create Earth in the standard BB scenario - rather, it created a helluva lot of energy, some of which ends up being Earth through a slow process of accumulation in a dust cloud - that being a process we have observed elsewhere. Secondly, you appear not to understand BB theory - the Big Bang was NOT an explosion, regardless of name. There was no 'dust' or 'chemicals' to start it. It was space-time popping into existence as an infinitely small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense point. That point then expands. Bang. There can't be a cause for such an event, because time didn't exist before it. No time for a cause to happen in, beyond lack of space for it to be in. Also, the Big Bang theory has masses of evidence for it. If you feel like looking it up, search for "cosmic microwave background", "hubble expansion" and "nucleosynthesis". Why does the universe need a cause, and God doesn't? Special pleading. I'm sure the various genocides, stonings, etc. that God commands the Israelites to perform in the OT were fair and just, then.  Beyond the existence of natural disasters, and how they tend to hit people that really didn't deserve it. Problem of evil, m'dear, problem of evil. Errr... are you sure you've researched Christianity in depth? Catholicism is a sect of Christianity. A large sect. It's hardly a 'totally different religion'. ..All of which Catholics do. Yes, it makes so much more sense for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, transcendent being to turn up and make everything work. Well, sort of make everything work. Never mind that the jump from 'nothing' to 'universe' has been fairly well studied and understood. The argument from design went out with Paley. I've actually made a post about why that's an extremely silly thing to say in this thread - just a bit up from where you are. I'll just copy-paste the section of text: In short, 'theory', in the scientific sense, is as good as fact. This being a book well-known for misrepresenting the arguments of 'the other side', cherry-picking evidence, ignoring inconvenient truths, and desperately shoehorning the irrelevant writings of historians into supporting an argument for a figure with no historical evidence. |
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Post by LinJa on Nov 9, 2006 21:12:20 GMT 11
Oh my Goodness! Had! I didn't understand one quarter of what you said. Especially referring to the Big Bang.  Sorry!
I did study the Big Bang in high school, but I don't remember much about it now. I was reading some posts earlier that talked about dusts and chemicals. I just can't comprehend how the dense point came to be ... with nothing to start it, space-time popping by itself? I can believe God started it all, because God is all powerful and knowing.
Why does the universe need a cause and God doesn't? Well, if there was a cause for him, then wouldn't whoever whatever wanted that cause, be God? or whatever made God? [I'm not sure if I understood the question, my bad if I didn't]
Josephus talks about Jesus entirely too glowingly for someone that is working for the Romans.
I'm not sure what that means. Does that mean Jesus worked for the Romans? Or that it was unlikely for him to work for them?
From what most people know about Jesus and what He claimed to be - He's either gotta be a Liar, a Lunatic, or that He really is who He claims to be, the Lord. Lunatic doesn't sit right, and being a Liar, well, not many people are willing to die for what they know is a lie.
Being fair and just means, that God has given people the opportunity to hear the truth about His son, and the response on that decides whether you go to hell or heaven. There's more of course, that's just a general overview.
No, God didn't command people to stone others, the people did that themselves. God gave Moses the 10 commandments for the people to live by, but they disobeyed God alot. God did send the 10 plagues, and that was after repeated warnings to the pharoah. But doesn't that just proves there is a God? [With sending the plagues, that is]
Christians worship one God. Catholics worship Mary and Saints. They pray to them. Even asking Mary to send messages to her Son. But why, when they can directly talk to Jesus? They deemed she remained a virgin and was ascended to heaven without dying (1950). Not true for Christians, because she hads sons with Joseph and died, like any other human being. They have alot of sacrements which is believe they must go through to be able to be saved/go to heaven. The bible only talks about two things to keep Jesus in remembrance. The Last Supper (Holy Communion) and Baptism. Salvation is given ONLY through the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Saviour, not through works. Works should be a response of thanks. And Why go to a priest to confess when you can directly confess to Jesus Himself? You don't need a mediator. Jesus IS the mediator between us and God.
There is MAJOR differences between Christians and Catholics. Not the same religion. That being said, there are also a lot of Christian-cults popping up here and there. Hard for people to know the difference. But then again, I'm sure there are some true 'Christians 'amongs Catholics.
Suffering (Evil) occurs because there is Sin in the world, which was brought about by Adam disobeying God and wanting to be like God. And further back, Satan, once an angel, wanting to be higher than God and revolting.
It is true that bad things do happen to good people. Satan is the likelyhood culprit behing most disasters. God doesn't make disasters happen, but He will allow it to happen. Why? Various reasons - mostly as a test of faith, making people realise He is God. The most annoying thing I find, is when people, who don't believe there is a God, will blame God for something gone bad.
I'm not sure about the book, because I haven't heard that side to what you were saying.
If one is really seeking to know God, speak to God sincerely, and I am sure He will let Himself be known to you. Have patience in prayer.
Well anyways, I've voiced my view and if some can't accept, then ohwells. I can't do more. I'm not the type that forces religion on people. I state my faith, and answer whatever questions people have and behave accordingly so people may see Jesus Christ reflected through me [but being weak humans, we stumble alot] 
PS If I have some more thoughts on the Big Bang, I will ask.
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MajiKat
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 9, 2006 21:58:56 GMT 11
Suffering (Evil) occurs because there is Sin in the world, which was brought about by Adam disobeying God and wanting to be like God. And further back, Satan, once an angel, wanting to be higher than God and revolting.
It is true that bad things do happen to good people. Satan is the likelyhood culprit behing most disasters. God doesn't make disasters happen, but He will allow it to happen. Why? Various reasons - mostly as a test of faith, making people realise He is God.
i just want to ask a couple of questions, away from the science stuff. the first is about sin. is it only catholics who believe in original sin, or do christians as well? and what about those who don't believe in God and Adam and Eve and all that? i thought it was Eve who was the one who started all the sin stuff because she challenged God or something? (sorry - its been a very long time since i have read the bible...but i have). so if satan is the likely culprit of all disasters, what does that mean for those who, like me, do not acknowledge him? it has always seemed to me, and please, i'm not judging here, that having a being like satan is a way to shift the blame. this is something i used to challenge my scripture teacher about at school - i used to really frustrate him - i'd have a whole list of questions ready for when he came  . so who then do non-believers have to blame? themselves? other people? i believe, in the case of bad things happening to bad people, that it is nothing to do with a higher being, it is to do with yourself. if you are a bad person, then you will pay for it, in this life, not the next, which is why i never understood the concept of heaven and hell. does it mean that a murderer can repent his sins, ask god for forgiveness at the eleventh hour, and go to heaven? or is he already assigned to hell? it has always confused me, how it is all meant to work... i mean, i don't believe in the afterlife. i believe in reincarnation of the soul, or that part of your consciousness that needs to continue to experience life and learn lessons before it can return to the collective unconscious ready to be recycled, if you will. i had someone tell me once that i was going to go to hell just for not believing in god, which didn't worry me because i don't believe hell exists (well, hell on earth maybe, at times...) with the whole god doesn't make disasters...he might not, but She, the goddess does, because she is neither cruel nor kind. she is life. she is power. she is beauty and destruction. i mean, yeah, innocent people die sometimes, and that is not necessarily a good thing, but it is all in some kind of balance. evil pays for its deeds eventually, in some form or another...i know that sounds horrible to say, but its much more complicated than i can explain here... but my questions - they have never been answered to my satisfaction before. i have never been able to make sense of it all, which is why, i guess, that i stopped believing in god and turned to something i thought was more feasible. |
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had
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Post by had on Nov 10, 2006 1:25:19 GMT 11
Not necessarily, on the latter idea, and it does sort of miss the point - my point is that you can't see a universe turning up out of nothing, but you don't bat an eyelid at a God coming out of nothing - or existing forever - both of which sound even more absurd to me. TEXT FOR LINKIf there was a beginning to the universe, there must have been an event which was without cause. By definition. Why not let it be the Big Bang? Ockham's Razor says that the idea that makes the least assumptions is most likely correct. Inserting God into the Big Bang adds a whole variety of other assumptions - and getting rid of the Big Bang entirely runs afoul of the fact that there's masses of evidence for it. Josephus worked for the Romans, and he described Jesus as being the Messiah. The romans would have been unhappy with this - and Josephus' audience wouldn't know what the word 'Messiah' meant - my point is that the only piece of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus is extremely unlikely to be anything but an interpolation - that is, some later scholar (Most likely a Christian monk) added the words about Jesus later, on some basis. It happens a lot, surprisingly. The 'liar, lunatic, or lord' argument is well known, and similarly well refuted. It's an example of a false dilemma (Except that it's a trilemma). Essentially, you're providing three choices that are non-exhaustive (There are other options), and then dismissing two of them on flimsy grounds to leave the conclusion you want. First off - you assume Jesus existed. Secondly, you assume Jesus claimed to be God, which is actually disputed by some biblical scholars. Thirdly, you get rid of 'lunatic' simply by saying "It doesn't fit", without actually providing any justification. Fourthly, 'lunatic' and 'liar' mixed together can certainly work. Numbers 15:32-36, KJV You'll find a similar translation in other versions of the bible, I expect. (As for the Pharaoh story, you should note that there is little to no evidence of the Exodus, and even if there was, why the hell did God go and punish the people of Egypt, rather then the Pharaoh, for saying no? That's hardly fair - the Pharaoh was a dictator. Even nastier, why does he kill the first-born children of everybody in Egypt - they didn't do anything. He almost sounds like Herod, doesn't he?) You haven't talked to many Catholics, have you? I was raised Catholic, and I can tell you right now that most of that is crap. Yes, they think Mary remained a virgin and ascended to heaven - and there is some element of praying to Mary - but I didn't ever hear any praying to saints, and Jesus and God were certainly far more important then Mary in their picture of the cosmos. Most of the following differences you run through are entirely and utterly pointless minor quibbles - so because they have six different religious ceremonies, they're not Christian any more? I believe it was you who stated that, in order to be a Christian, one must: All of which Catholics do. You do realise that Catholicism is, in fact, the first, original Christian sect, right? As in, the Protestants, Baptists, Anglicans, etc., split off from Catholicism? They're hardly a 'Christian-cult'. They're Christianity.
Funny that, I thought it was because he wanted an apple from a tree in a situation where he couldn't possibly be expected to make a moral judgement. The whole story is fairly ridiculous.
Oh, right, of course. So God is just sitting there, letting The Bad Guy screw with us, and not doing anything to stop it? Sounds omnibenevolent to me! Throw in some testing our faith, you've got one great guy!
Or, for a more clear example of why that's bogus, The Tale of the Twelve Officers
This being part of the point - Strobel doesn't even attempt to try and fairly represent arguments against the historicity of Jesus.
I'd prefer not to. It's quite difficult for me to see prayer as anything but a form of pleading with a universe that doesn't care.
This is a really, really good idea. Before rejecting any of the modern scientific theories that are different to the biblical explanation, make sure you know what they are, first. The Big Bang and Evolution, in particular, are often horribly mangled and misunderstood.
...
You've got me writing huge, semi-off-topic, sarcastic, debatey posts again. I hope you're happy. |
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Post by Fuil Dearg on Nov 10, 2006 3:03:42 GMT 11
You've got me writing huge, semi-off-topic, sarcastic, debatey posts again. I hope you're happy. you have yourself to thank for that, no-one forced your hand.
LinJa, what do you make of the Beatitudes (The Sermon on the Mount)? |
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had
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The pen is greater then the sword - especially if the sword is very small, and the pen is very sharp
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Post by had on Nov 10, 2006 3:08:53 GMT 11
I was being slightly tongue-in-cheek - hence the smiley. |
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Post by Fuil Dearg on Nov 10, 2006 3:16:34 GMT 11
i wasn't sure how to interpret it.
EDIT:
sorry. nevertheless, posting sarcastically is likely to be felt as offensive.
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Roland
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Post by Roland on Nov 10, 2006 17:46:40 GMT 11
I'm wondering if any of you guys have remembered that this is a book club. We are here for a mutual appreciation of Isobelle Carmody's Obernewtyn Books. We are not here to belittle, we are not here to judge. Those who have been here a long time are proud of the family environment that we have produced here in our little corner of the web. We are immensely proud of the safe, supportive environment we have produced. We are also immensely proud of the fact that everybody, whether they be twelve or fifty, is valued, and their beliefs and opinions are not considered in anyway wrong, regardless of their age, their sex, their race or religion. We have proud atheists here, we have proud agnostics here, we have catholics, presbyterians, jews, muslims, wiccan, scientologists and many many other people of many many other backgrounds and religions that I don't even pretend to understand. Which does not mean that any of them are wrong. This thread should be a place to learn about the beliefs of other members, in that context of a safe, family environment. For example, until I came here, I didn't know a damn thing about being Wiccan. Thanks to some members, I'm not going to convert, but I feel that I understand their world view a little better, which in turn enhances my world view. It is not a place to tell people that they are wrong, stupid, misinformed or otherwise. A very wise woman (my mum  ) once told me that people who feel the urge to attack the faith of others probably don't have very strong faith themselves. If this is you, find some other conduit to learn about your faith without putting down other Obernetters. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and everyone sure as watering-can is entitled to their religion. If you don't like it, FIND ANOTHER FORUM. THIS IS A watering-canING BOOK CLUB. The point of religion and the point of faith, is exactly that FAITH. It is not provable or disprovable. If you think it's crap, fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but you need to read your posts very carefully, take a trip to the Ober Nettiquette, and make damn sure that you expressing only your opinon and you aren't belittling or demeaning our members in the process. If you can't do that then DON'T POST. (and just as a side note, a smiley, doesn't go far enough to negate the poison in your words) |
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had
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The pen is greater then the sword - especially if the sword is very small, and the pen is very sharp
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Post by had on Nov 10, 2006 18:00:22 GMT 11
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Roland
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Post by Roland on Nov 10, 2006 18:14:12 GMT 11
What if I use lots of them? Yeah, and I'm not so sure finding this funny will help much either. |
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MajiKat
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 10, 2006 18:24:38 GMT 11
i don't think so. You need to understand that your words can be taken as hurtful and insulting. i'm not a christain, i do not believe in their God so your words do not appear aimed at me, but i still understand and accept that their are people out there who do believe in it, and for them it is an extremely important part of their lives. As Turks says, this is not the space for the kind of debate you are carrying on. Please try to be a bit more positive and accepting - you do not have to convert or believe, but you can be a bit more tolerant. Ask questions, seek answers, but please do not criticise or insult someone elses faith. Religion is personal. Science is obviously important to you, so please be mindful that other people's faith is important to them and their beliefs should not be dismissed because they are different to yours. As a pagan, i understand the need for tolerance in relation to religion, because i have experienced discrimination on the basis of my faith. Just try to keep the conversation more about interest and respect, and not about who is right and who is wrong. that said, i'm sorry if anything i have said about other religions has been taken with offense. None meant  |
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Cookie Lover
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Post by Cookie Lover on Nov 10, 2006 22:29:03 GMT 11
In short, 'theory', in the scientific sense, is as good as fact. Allow me to just jump on that single phrase that jumped out to me...here are some scientific facts from a while ago. There are four elements that make up the universe. The Earth is the centre of the universe, which revolves around Earth. And of course, a Terry Pratchett quote: yesterday, we knew the Earth was sperical, today we know its a disc, on the back of a giant turtle. Who knows what shape it'll be tomorrow. You can't really say scientific facts are true. All science is is a way of making a good excuse of the way things are, until we can think of a better excuse. So what's more beleiveable? An argument that doesn't have any proof except what a bunch of scientists and text books say, which is always changing it's mind, or what a bunch of preists and a really old book tells us, which has remained pretty much the same throughout the centuries. |
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MajiKat
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 10, 2006 23:47:53 GMT 11
There are four elements that make up the universe. The Earth is the centre of the universe, which revolves around Earth. i agree - but that there are five elements - earth, air, fire, water and spirit. as a witch, i believe, as i'm sure other religions do aswell, that all things are imbued with a spirit, or a soul, if you want to think of it that way. that is why i have never seen the human race as a 'higher' race than any others - we are no more important or special than animals or plants, who have their own societies and rituals and systems of life. the elements are very important in paganism - they represent different emotional states, different energies, of which all things share. every one of us has a bit of fire in us, a bit of grounding, centred earth, a light, feathery dreamy air, and a fluidity of emotion - water. and we all have spirit, that which gives us a higher or adjusted consciousness. sprirt can also be considered the third eye - insight. if you are into astrology, you will notice that certain astrological signs are attributed to the elements - for instance, i am a virgo, and as such am (meant to be - it isn't always right but its scary when it is) very grounded, reliable, responsible etc. earth is my ruling element, and is such a huge part of my personality. |
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had
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Post by had on Nov 11, 2006 12:58:58 GMT 11
I'm taking my response to this to the 'science and religion' thread, as it fits better there.
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Post by Fuil Dearg on Nov 11, 2006 21:24:55 GMT 11
I was raised as a Roman Catholic. I'm not very religious nowadays, quite the contrary in fact. i do have some beliefs which might be called religious. I believe in the idea of spirits. i like the idea of reincarnation and think it's likely true. i very much like the idea of an eternal soul but i'm no longer sure that it is so. i think it probably is but im just not as sure as i was. i used to be quite sure.
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Post by Rushton on Nov 11, 2006 21:53:40 GMT 11
*drags thread back to topic*
I enjoy being Jewish; I wouldn't describe myself as terribly devout, but I love the rituals and community that come with it.
Take tonight for instance - the end of Shabbat (the holy day of rest). Just after sunset (traditionally when 3 stars can be seen in the sky), and before we began our meal we had Havdalah which is the ritual that ends the week.
Shabbas is always a special time, I don't often go to temple - but on Friday nights I do light a candle to welcome the Sabbath spirit. We believe that during Shabbat, you gain an extra soul the Neshamah Yeseira, that comes to dwell with you so that you feel the specialness of the day. It also helps refresh you spiritually.
On Saturday night for Havdalah, we light another candle - but this time a special one. It's a twisted candle, 3 candles braided together that burns very brightly. We recite the ritual prayers, bless one another and then pass around a small pierced metal box that contains spices.
You breathe in the scent of the spices, so that you will be reminded of your extra soul throughout the rest of the week, as Havdalah celebrates the return to your normal one soul state. ;D
I find it immensely beautiful to participate in; it always starts my week well.
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MajiKat
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 11, 2006 21:59:11 GMT 11
that sounds like a beautiful ritual Rigel! so positive and up-lifting!
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Post by Fuil Dearg on Nov 12, 2006 5:10:33 GMT 11
i agree - but that there are five elements - earth, air, fire, water and spirit. i believe that there are elements aswell. earth, fire, air and water certainly. i think that there are common elements (earth, air, water, fire, etc.) but also some less common ones. i think that metal and wood might be common elements too. i sortof thinkof sunlight and moonlight and their energies on earth as elements too. as a witch, i believe, as i'm sure other religions do aswell, that all things are imbued with a spirit, or a soul, if you want to think of it that way. i think that most, perhaps all, things are imbued with a spirit, certainly all natural things are, i'm unsure as to whether artificial things are or not, i think they might but i'm not really sure about that. that is why i have never seen the human race as a 'higher' race than any others - we are no more important or special than animals or plants, who have their own societies and rituals and systems of life. i don't see the human race as higher either, i just see them as having a particular purpose and being here for particular reasons and functions. i think that the purpose, reasons for being here and functions of/for each individual human are both for the soul of the individual human and for the planet. i like the way you explained the second part of what you said there. i find it a very clear explanation. the elements are very important in paganism - they represent different emotional states, different energies, of which all things share. every one of us has a bit of fire in us, a bit of grounding, centred earth, a light, feathery dreamy air, and a fluidity of emotion - water. and we all have spirit, that which gives us a higher or adjusted consciousness. sprirt can also be considered the third eye - insight. i think you're probably right. i don't have enough experience of these in my own life to know but i have enough to be inclined to think that it's so. i certainly believe in astrology of chinese tradition and i have often found descriptions by these horoscopes, of particular people i know, to be very fitting. with western horoscopes i have found them to describe the character of people well and that the element often suits the person to whom it belongs. btw, i'm an air sign and i have found taht that has described my character well, and especially so when i was younger. MK, i hope u don't mind me quoting ur entire post. i had something to say on each part and find those ideas and topics interesting so that's why i did. i know little about wicca and little about the witchcraft that you have mentioned. i like all that i have heard about it. |
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Kella
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Post by Kella on Nov 12, 2006 8:58:26 GMT 11
Whoah! You guys have gone into such depths with your arguments! I really don't have time to read them all, they're so long... And Rigel, your day that you quoted sounds so peaceful and uplifting. It's like you're celebrating the end of every week, every week. I know that your religion has a language all on it's own because of all the shows it's on. But I was wondering if you could tell all of us a little about this language - it sounds so fascinating. Madam Kat your religion sounds fascinating too! There's so many extents to religion that it seems unbelievable. It keeps me wondering - if we all started as just a few people on a barren Earth - what religion would they have had? There's so many, and no-one knows when each came into being that it's hard to tell which is the one we started with. My religion is anglican. Well most of the time it is anyway... Sometimes I believe in God and other times I don't. I think that this is because I live in a house with no main religion - it doesn't run my life but I still think that this affects what I believe. Everone has different opinions about everything and it's probably in our nature to argue for what we believe. But I don't think that means we can be rude about it whatever we think. Or how many we incorperate into it either. I know how only a few words can hurt alot of people. I learnt that when I went a bit overboard in the Rushton/Dameon debate...  |
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MajiKat
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 12, 2006 12:35:20 GMT 11
Thats cool FD - i'm glad you had so much to say about it. With the elements, earth, air, fire and water are the more 'western' ones. eastern philiosophy has wood, metal, water, fire and earth - but thats for the horoscope. i think eastern medicine uses more, or less, of these (i'm not sure). anyway, this is from a little book i have: "Five invisible elements (wu hsing, or five movers) are said to influence the physical forms we know as fire, earth, metal, water and wood. Each of these five elements is associated with specific qualities and the changing cycles of the seasons (the western element of air is not an oriental element since it is ever-present in the form of chi, the breath of life that permeates all)." i don't have alot of info on it, but its really very interesting. its funny though - under the chinese horoscope i am a sheep/goat, but the attributes for that sign do not fit my character at all. that kind of spun me out, because the virgoan attributes are so spot-on, although the Rat sign, which is my dad, is pretty close to his character. as far as being a witch goes, i am still and probably will be for life, on my spiritual journey, there is still so much i don;t know or understand, and i accept that i may never understand. its really, essentially, about knowing and learning yourself and understanding your relationship with all living things (yeah - i meant to say i thought all living things have a soul, not everything. although sometimes my car seems to have a life of its own ) and understanding how you, as an individual, affect change in your own life and the lives of others. its about knowing how to balance yourself i guess. but thanks for posting! |
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Post by Rushton on Nov 12, 2006 15:59:31 GMT 11
Hebrew? lol Well I wouldn't call myself an expert, but it is definitely a language! Pretty much all of our prayers are recited in Hebrew and although I can read it, I can't actually translate most of it very well at all A lot of the language and slang you see in the movies and on TV is usually Yiddish, which is a dialect that comes from German, but is pretty much used by Ashkenazi (Eastern European) Jews. That's where you get words like: shlep - to carry/drag kvetch - to complain chutzpah - confidence/nerve nosh - snack] kitsch - tacky A lot of these terms have found their way into English now, especially in America. I do sometimes slip in the odd word (mostly the affectionate insult type words ) when I'm speaking. I find horoscopes really interesting - I think I do fit the Cancerian profile pretty well, but for my chinese horoscope I'm not really like the Monkey at all. I do love reading all about them though at the beginning of the year . Do you practise any rituals at all Mysterikat? Or is it more about living your life according to your beliefs for you?
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MajiKat
Guildmember
Signs of the Sacrifice[x=Mysterikat]
Posts: 1,202
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 12, 2006 16:13:36 GMT 11
its more about living. i did try to ritual path, but it felt too staged and unnatural. wiccan rituals, things like Calling Down the Moon (which is incredibly beautiful ) are so much easier to do in a coven. as a solitary, i don't feel i need to do them. because its just me, its easier to just do whatever i feel like doing. i have my own personal rituals i guess, and i do try to honour the Wheel of the Year rituals as best i can. i think you need to keep it simple - there is no need for all these tools and chants and ritualised phrases. i just say what i feel and thats fine for me. to be honest, when i did try the rituals, i felt really really silly, like i was rehersing a play or something , so i decided that was not my style. my cousin is a Wiccan High Priest, so he is right into the ritual thing and has a coven and all that. i'm not a wiccan - i cannot call myself that because the path i follow is more simply witchcraft. wicca is relatively new, and is an evolution, i guess, of the old ways of the witch. i think about the goddess and teh god everyday - so thats ritual in itself right? they are in my thoughts, and i know that they are a guiding force for me. |
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~Ethereal~
Gypsy
Wake up kids! We've got the Dreamer's disease![x=etherealdeva]
Posts: 494
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Post by ~Ethereal~ on Nov 13, 2006 19:43:48 GMT 11
i'm not a wiccan - i cannot call myself that because the path i follow is more simply witchcraft. . i think about the goddess and teh god everyday - so thats ritual in itself right? they are in my thoughts, and i know that they are a guiding force for me. That's pretty much what it's like for me too Kat. I've alwasy found Wicca a little too much like Ceremonial Magic for me. Big ritual has never been right for me. Although the rising popularity of Wicca has made it easier to have a basepoint to start from when tryign to talk about my path. to other people. Especially in my Theology and philosophy classes at uni. |
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MajiKat
Guildmember
Signs of the Sacrifice[x=Mysterikat]
Posts: 1,202
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Post by MajiKat on Nov 13, 2006 22:03:58 GMT 11
Eth, when did you come out of the 'broom closet'? Did you find it a hard thing to do? Its like, no matter how comfortable I am with my faith, the word 'witch' still carries such negative connotations, although i think it is getting better. explaining myself time and time again to people is tiring and irritates me at times, but it all depends on the persons reaction when you say, 'actually, i'm a witch'.
my parents had a strange reaction - neither of them are religious, or should i say, follow any organised religious path (man, my dad is a pagan, but you cannot give him that label - he flips out. for a man who does not believe in god, the devil still gives him the shivers...). Mum thought i was going through a 'phase' - she still does - so we don't talk about it anymore. My dad is the most superstitous person i have ever encountered. he told me i had to remove my tarot cards from the house one christmas - 'playing with forces' was what he referred to them as (which i guess they are...). so dad seems to think, i dunno what he thinks really. he's not a man to talk to about religion of any sort.
but i gave my parents a book to read about witchcraft and i think it cleared a few things up (well, i know mum read it and would of told dad what he needed to know).
my sister - well, did she flip! see, we were all christianed Church of England, so in her mind, thats what we are, although she doesn't believe or go to church or any of that.
Have you read Gerald Gardner's book? "Witchcraft Today'? I own a copy and i have tried to read it, but found it too strange. not alot of what he talks about resonated with me. I have some other excellent texts that i have found fully echo what i feel.
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. so who then do non-believers have to blame? themselves? other people? i believe, in the case of bad things happening to bad people, that it is nothing to do with a higher being, it is to do with yourself. if you are a bad person, then you will pay for it, in this life, not the next, which is why i never understood the concept of heaven and hell. does it mean that a murderer can repent his sins, ask god for forgiveness at the eleventh hour, and go to heaven? or is he already assigned to hell? it has always confused me, how it is all meant to work...
) once told me that people who feel the urge to attack the faith of others probably don't have very strong faith themselves. If this is you, find some other conduit to learn about your faith without putting down other Obernetters. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and everyone sure as watering-can is entitled to their religion. If you don't like it, FIND ANOTHER FORUM. THIS IS A watering-canING BOOK CLUB. 
