great white: are WE the before timers? (grim but.)

[Hannai]

Well if certain countries (like i dunno us??!!) would sign Kyoto and get serious about the environment we could at least stop it getting bigger!

[fearless-falcon]

OKAY EVERY ONE good that poeple have recognized the fact that perhaps we're not really taking care of the earth as well as we should well done for seeing this
being 1/2 blood cherokee indian i know very well about nostradamis and the mayan profercy all of those
there is a site run by friends of mine who have a book about survival and profercy if anyone is interested the site is currently down yet if you REALLY want to see what is happening the things you won't see on the news go to www.earthchangestv.com
or just google it! belive me the nativeamericans and the shamen of all of the tribes in amereica have said that it's time to run for the hills and also we are past the piont of return......
this may hjave some people here not beliving that the world will roll over blow up crack in two then blow up again but visit that site and it may make you belive differently!!!!!
I'm not saying that you should throw your arms up in the air and run away but you should think very seriously about it!
the many things we could do to try and recover our earth and (hopefully)
truly 2012 is too long think 2008
gloomy and a terrible thought but! there are too many profercies to ignore it!
has anyone here heard about the golden age? a time after great bloodshed and destrutction
in india it has been declared the age of kahlii "the last age" perhaps we are the surviving generation perhaps we are the generation to fix our planet
but whatever we are we MUST DO SOMETHING now is the time to act!!!!!

[fearless-falcon]

we can do something to yes stop it from getting bigger but if you look at what you see on the news it's apparent now that we're in trouble and also what about fuel what will happen when it dries up?
earthchanges are coming a lot more serious and soon

[Hannai]

they're called legs
use them

Generations before us lived and worked successfully without fossil fuels...
Not to mention that 10% of the world population (those of us lucky enough to like in 1st world countries) use 90% of the worlds resources...

Meaning of course that 90% of the worlds population are still living without what we would consider to be basic energy requirements.

Having established that a change needs to be made, what can we as individuals start doing to effect one?

[MajiKat]

its hard to know what to do. I do what i can - i don't drive unless i have too (i work 100km away from where i live so i can't really avoid it - but we do car pool), i try not to use alot of electricity, i recycle, i eat organic and non GM foods, i buy local foods to help support my community, i plant trees and grow my own vegies, i try really hard not to make too much rubbish (god i wish the department of education would start using recycled paper!), i use cleaning products that are as natural as i can find them, i'm waterwise...

i guess what it takes is for every person to do a bit. there are so many people who just don't realise the impact that we have on the environment.

but apart from that, what can we really do? the government won't listen, the public won't listen - the hippy protestor stigma is still pretty strong, even in an area like mine which is full of 'hippies', like myself.

its such a hard thing. the govt needs to get on board (yes, signing Kyoto would be a good start - we need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and why we do not have solar energy as one of the main forms of energy in this country astounds me - we are a dry continent, we are a sunny continent...gah! i don't get it).

i think, unfortunately, that it all comes down to money.

[Dark One]

falconfaseeker said:

and also what about fuel what will happen when it dries up?

I plan to own the last of the V8 Intercepters, and go scavaging the wastelands for fuel

[alwayslove]

I know what you mean Majikat about the hippie stigma, I get it for just wearing my 'make poverty history' band. which is ridiculous.

I think you and me should probably just hijack Australia's media.

Do you reckon I'll get done for terrorism for putting hijack and australia in the same sentence?

oh the ridiculousness of the present... Post reply with a heartfelt sigh.

[Hannai]

Yes most definatley putting Hijack and australia and terrorism in the same sentence the only way you could be more suspicious is to add bomb in there!

I think the media do need to get a good kick up the *** in the right direction not to mention the national leadership...

Meybe Lil Jhonny's mother could scare him into signing Kyoto? nothing else has...

[fearless-falcon]

most of the ww3 profericies iclude a commit that covers the sky and that is the signsl that the 3rd and last war will begin and that is in nostradamis mayan indian everything
there have been quakes all over california
japan alsaka has had a tsunami warning so ahs japan so has new zealand
also in a profercies they state that a 3rd of the worlds population will wiped out by a deasease
not counting the great white which WILL happen one day ...... soon
the super powers throwing misslies around and threatening each other will lead to it someday so my question is the whole reason i started this forum was to ask : what are you doing?
not only to help but to survive?
does this scare you?
does this compell you to act?
do you know how to act ?
this may sound kinda like preeching but we all need to face the facts all great ages fall and ours has gone so far that we can do anything sitting down we've become over lazy we're flaunting with serious disaster and we've passed the point of no return as the mayans and the indains have said even the crop circles one was a symbol that meant "this is the end"
the end of what? the end possibly of our age to become the people in the oc??
what do you belive?

[fearless-falcon]

i know this is a very serious statement but there are too many signs to ignore i agree that we should highjak the media at this point because have we seen any news on the quakes in canada or the tsunamii warnings? they don't want people to panic
what happens when oil runs dry? peolpe will most likely start killing eachother
dark and grimm but we need to think seriuosly if more people know more people will act about it so exactly how can we steal the media
any hackers and intelligence gents among us??

[DragonRider/Robin]

I agree that Australians don't know much about the signs... Hijacking the media's soundong like a good idea. All I see on the TV are ads about saving water and celebs breaking p with eachother. I admit, water is an issue, but we're about to drown in it, so looking after the earth as well as keeping ourselves alive is a priority (well, seeing as if we don't look after the earth, we'd probably die, anyway, and the few people that survive would be suffing for the next dozen of generations...) Nobody seems to care about the earth, and fuel is getting more and more expensive. LPG would eventually run out as well, and petrol is almost gone. It seems humans were created to bring about everyone's destruction, the way we're going. We wage war against eachother, people die at the hands of other people, and we're about to bring about our own death. It looks like it's too late...

P.S. Sorry for my gloomy view of life.

[alwayslove]

I'm pretty sure we should turn to the wise words of Ms Kylie Minogue in this case...

"It's never too late, we still got time.. never too late... something.. something."

Ok, so it's Kylie, and sure... she was probably referring to something to do with lovey dovey stuff and yeah... i don't know the words but who really cares? not me!

It's never too late. *dances wildly... notices little sister watching and grinning, and stops... quite embarrassed.*

[Dark One]

The oil won't run dry as quickly as people think.

Recently it was discovered that some ofthe oil fields appear to be filling up again, but no-one knows why...

A lot of car manufacturers are finaly looking properly at electric cars, and engines that run on biodiesel (anything fromold cooking oil to rape seed oil) and hydrogen

BP (British Petroleum) is, i think, the first oil company to be producing more renewable energy sources than it is oil

[Hannai]

Yes, with global warming we are about to drown in the rising oceans, but we cant drink it coz its salt. Thats why its a problem

[DragonRider/Robin]

Finally, car manufacturers have opened their eyes... (no offense to people who work for them or actually them). I've always wondered what BP standed for...

[Dark One]

hannai said:

Yes, with global warming we are about to drown in the rising oceans, but we cant drink it coz its salt. Thats why its a problem

You can drink water from the sea.

A lot of arid countries have desalination plants that extract water from sea water. You can read more about them here:

Wikipedia

[Lucy]

jgduffin said:

falconfaseeker said:

and also what about fuel what will happen when it dries up?

I plan to own the last of the V8 Intercepters, and go scavaging the wastelands for fuel

Oh dear, I now have an image of you in the forest with a big spear and a huge bottle of that V8 vegetable juice drink

[Dark One]

PMSL! That's not quite the image i was going for...

[fearless-falcon]

great! people DO actually realize we are really screwing up the earth majorly perhaps we should start thinking of building underground houses! maybe then when ww3 starts we can hide it's supposed to last for 3 years then (if you are a god beliver) juesus will return and start the world anew
BUT!
we have to SURVIVE the war before any of that will happen!
i am with you on the oil situation dragonrider/robin
yes sure is gloomy BUT common we are going to come crashing down like the romans they partied and drank themselves a new arsehole untill poof they were no more! and we're partying and drinking OURSELVES new arseholes and soon enough we'll all go poof by blowing ourselves up a few times making 70% of the world uninhabitable for a few thousand years and then the earthchanges will roll the earth around for a while and those who DO survive get to have a little get together with juesus
YIPPIE!
so............... anyone interested in reading a book about the profercies and survival?
just tell me and i'll contact our sourse and you can send us a cheque and voilla a book
tll if u want 1

[Dark One]

But you guys already have underground houses. There are some near the opal mines at Coober Pedy

[Hannai]

ive stayed in one of the underground hotels there. thyre great 22.5 degrees no matter if its 4 or 40 outside.

there are underground houses other places too, but it wont work everywhere. the ground needs to be stable and the right soil type

[had]

Actually, I'm fairly sure Rome collapsed because of internecine political warfare distracting them from the more serious fact that an invasion of 'barbarians' was taking apart their outer provinces.

Global warming is an extremely bad thing - action should be taken to limit it. It ISN'T the end of the world. Even if the worst-case global warming scenario takes place, it won't even be the end of human civilisation. We'll have less land mass, less area suitable for agriculture, and ridiculously bad weather conditions - in general, everything gets more extreme - but humans are going to survive.

A full-on nuclear war may well spell the beginning of a long period of extremely cold weather, agricultural difficulties, and increased rates of various cancer related illnesses, but even that likely won't destroy civilisation. It's bad, it should be avoided, it's not the end of the world.

Really, if you want to be literal about 'end of the world', then there's pretty much no way that human activity could ever destroy Earth. In the future, we may gain capabilities that would allow us to render it uninhabitable for the next few billion years (Assuming we don't fall prey to global warming or nuclear war. ), but literally destroyed the planet is far harder then you might think. Planets are <i>tough</i>

Even a full-on nuclear war that destroyed 99% of all life on earth and left great sections of it a smoking wasteland wouldn't 'destroy Earth' for good. Millions of years later, the background radiation level would be basically the same as it is now. Life will bounce back - it's done it before. Mass extinctions have certainly occurred - the most well known one being the end of the Cretaceous.

Basically, no matter what we do, we can't possibly destroy Earth for all time. You might be able to take some comfort in that.

(My opinion on the Mayan calender stuff and Nostradamus is that they're bogus. Nostradamus, in particular, is fuelled mostly by vague prophecy mixed with shoehorning)

[Fuil Dearg]

had said:

Actually, I'm fairly sure Rome collapsed because of internecine political warfare distracting them from the more serious fact that an invasion of 'barbarians' was taking apart their outer provinces.

I'll give the explanation that I was taught in some of my secondary school History classes. Roman soldiers became lazy, weak in combat and soft due to lack of practice and an over-indulgent lifestyle. Then some tribes came along and went to war, a war for which they had amply prepared. They were more than ready and better motivated.
Another reason is that Rome was too over stretched to rule and command effectively and efficiently. It was so expansive that they failed to control all the peoples who occupied it. That is, they did not exert enough direct control. They were unable to.

had said:

Global warming is an extremely bad thing - action should be taken to limit it. It ISN'T the end of the world. Even if the worst-case global warming scenario takes place, it won't even be the end of human civilisation. We'll have less land mass, less area suitable for agriculture, and ridiculously bad weather conditions - in general, everything gets more extreme - but humans are going to survive.

I tend to agree. Enhanced global warming, as it is these days, is dire and IT WILL cause much harm. (It already is!) Humans survived one global-wide deluge already, I would be quite surprised if they did not survive another. Fortunately/unfortunately, humans are very resourceful and capable when it comes to ensuring and maintaining their own survival in the short term. There are humans who live in harsh conditions in polar regions. For example, Eskimos. I suppose, if people lived on/in water (seas/oceans), they'd eat sea fish, seaweed and a few sea mammals. Perhaps, they'd take milk from dolphins. 40% fat... YUM! and good for keeping you warm and as an energy source. Perhaps, they would build floating metal structures and upon these build factories or laboratories for taking elemental metals from salty seawater, by means of electrolysis I guess. Whatever they'd do I have little doubt that they would survive, though initially many would die.

had said:

A full-on nuclear war may well spell the beginning of a long period of extremely cold weather, agricultural difficulties, and increased rates of various cancer related illnesses, but even that likely won't destroy civilisation. It's bad, it should be avoided, it's not the end of the world.

I think that a full-on nuclear war could destroy all humans on Earth. I think that it would render the Earth's surface uninhabitable for most mammals, if not all. I think that some life would survive. In particular, I think that chemosynthetic bacteria, in volcanoes and near volcanic regions near seabed, would survive. I also think that deep sea creatures would have a good chance at survival. This does, of course, include some whales... and therefore mammals! There would probably be some humans who would hide away. Maybe, some would go to the moon for this. Maybe, some went to the moon for this very reason in the Ober Chron and this could then be related in some significant way to Maruman's dislike of the Moon and to his position of Moonwatcher. Perhaps, the title of Moonwatcher has a double meaning: that he guards Elspeth at night time and that he watches for dangers from the Moon.

had said:

Really, if you want to be literal about 'end of the world', then there's pretty much no way that human activity could ever destroy Earth. In the future, we may gain capabilities that would allow us to render it uninhabitable for the next few billion years (Assuming we don't fall prey to global warming or nuclear war. ), but literally destroyed the planet is far harder then you might think. Planets are <i>tough</i>

Planets are tough but humans have terrible power.

had said:

Even a full-on nuclear war that destroyed 99% of all life on earth and left great sections of it a smoking wasteland wouldn't 'destroy Earth' for good. Millions of years later, the background radiation level would be basically the same as it is now. Life will bounce back - it's done it before. Mass extinctions have certainly occurred - the most well known one being the end of the Cretaceous.

It depends what you mean by destroy. You can destroy someone or something without entirely eliminating that which defines them. You can destroy a land and render it a wasteland but it's still a land and it is also destroyed. A global nuclear war could be called The End of The World and it would not be wrong to do so. It might not be the end of all time or whatever but it would be the end of our world, this world. It would be so altered that it would not still be this world and ofcourse it also would.

had said:

Basically, no matter what we do, we can't possibly destroy Earth for all time. You might be able to take some comfort in that.

Unless there is someone to stop you (not necessarily some human) then I'm not sure that it cannot happen. I suspect and expect that worse things happen and have happened. Still, there is so much good and hope...

Eventually the Earth will die, so they say.

had said:

(My opinion on the Mayan calender stuff and Nostradamus is that they're bogus. Nostradamus, in particular, is fuelled mostly by vague prophecy mixed with shoehorning)

Unfortunately, I am very ignorant of both. Based on the little that I have heard of the ancient Mayan civilisation I doubt that they are bogus generally.

[had]

Just a bit of maths:

The Earth has a mass of approximately 5.9 x 10^24 kg. You can work out how much energy is required to completely destroy - that is, blow to smithereens - Earth. It's the energy required to take every particle on Earth and put it at escape velocity.

Earth's escape velocity is 11.1 * 10^3 m/s. That's decidedly non-relativistic, so we can use newtonian maths.

E = 0.5 * M * v^2
= 0.5 * 5.9 * 11.1^2 * 10^24 * 10^6
= 363.4 * 10^30 J
= 3.634 * 10^32 J

That's an incredible amount. For comparative purposes, modern nuclear weapons can get up to about 2.09 * 10^9 J of energy. To destroy Earth completely, at a minimum, you would need 1.7 * 10^23 weapons or so. That's certainly far more then we've got.

We could eliminate all life, sure. Well, except for a few bacteria. But it would certainly bounce back again.

(Incidentally, dare I note that every prediction of the apocalypse to date has failed to come to pass? Not counting those that can't be decided yet, because we haven't reached the date predicted)

[Fuil Dearg]

jgduffin said:

Recently it was discovered that some of the oil fields appear to be filling up again, but no-one knows why...

I bet Terry Pratchet knows why.

jgduffin said:

A lot of car manufacturers are finally looking properly at electric cars, and engines that run on biodiesel (anything fromold cooking oil to rape seed oil) and hydrogen

I was told that a typical diesel combustion engine can be modified easily to use vegetable cooking oil by changing the pressure setting that determines how pressurised the fuel that is about to be combusted is made to be. I was also told that the amount of carbon dioxide generated by the burning of vegetable cooking oil as automobile fuel does not exceed the amount of carbon dioxide which those plants that were used to produce the oil took into their leaves while they lived. The significance of this is that it implies, and perhaps means, that the contribution to the (Enhanced) Greenhouse Effect that the use of vegetable cooking oil as fuel has is low.

---

falconfaseeker said:

so............... anyone interested in reading a book about the profercies and survival?
just tell me and i'll contact our sourse and you can send us a cheque and voilla a book
tll if u want 1

Falconfaseeker, is there a free copyleft online copy available to download?
When you say our source, who does our refer to? Do you mean some named/titled group in particular? Do you mean yourself and some similarly minded friends of yours?

Throughout your posts in this thread you have been very vague, in part, by not referring to any particular prophecies in any appreciable depth and also, in part, by not referring to any sources at all in several of your references. Your posts lack enough coherence and explanation. Your tone has been dogmatic and lacking reasonable explanation. Perhaps, you might give some examples and explanations so that people might have some idea of why those beliefs are important to you and so that people are in a stronger position to make up their own minds on the matter based on information to do with it. You suggest that people take action; what you suggest is something that ought not be taken lightly. Dogma is inadequate for this. So, if you are keen to give them and to show them reason to do something about the dire straits of this planet, then you need to express yourself more fully.