The End of the Y Chromosome (i.e. Men)

[Siryn]

the futuer may be bright but i still need men in the world, i dont think i could do without them.

[Arctic Firefox]

min said:

No, I didn't see that, AF. What did they discuss specifically?

The general gist was that some women (especially the young generation) are undergoing a kind of identity crisis with regards to the rise of raunch culture, which is seen by most feminists as a step backwards. Maureen Dowd was pondering the implications of this development in terms of male-female relations, but at the end of the day, everything is so relative and personal that these types of trends are difficult to predict. Still, arriving at that conclusion was a lot more interesting than I'm making it sound. Or maybe not, I seem to have forgotten most of what was said.


Insight is always a good programme to watch. The debate on the implications of the Cronulla riots in the show following the Maureen Dowd interview was very enlightening.

[Gahltha~]

siryn said:

the futuer may be bright but i still need men in the world, i dont think i could do without them.

Damn straight you can't live without us!! Hehehehe, hopefully we're not dying out, if so, i plan on being the last!! Muahahaha. Nah i don't think we'll survive long enough for men to die out, a gloomy thought, but that's my opinion

[Siryn]

sadly, i agree. i always hear things like "in the year 3000 [blah blah blah]" and i often wonder if we (as in people) will be around then.

[catwhisperer]

That is soooo depressing, but I agree too. Like, even, what if we do go back to something resembling Medieval times like the Land in Obernewtyn?

[Dark One]

If somethign major happens then our society probably will regress. Its supposed to have happened before, whith an ancient civilisation (of around 10,000 years ago) getting almost wiped out by a great flood

[Fuil Dearg]

jgduffin said:

If somethign major happens then our society probably will regress. Its supposed to have happened before, whith an ancient civilisation (of around 10,000 years ago) getting almost wiped out by a great flood

That deluge was documented in different parts of the world at the time it happened, including Asia. Some people think that its the biblical deluge of Moses' Noah's time.

catwhisperer said:

That is soooo depressing, but I agree too. Like, even, what if we do go back to something resembling Medieval times like the Land in Obernewtyn?

Hopefully an escape from LA incident.

[Dark One]

fuildearg said:

jgduffin said:

If somethign major happens then our society probably will regress. Its supposed to have happened before, whith an ancient civilisation (of around 10,000 years ago) getting almost wiped out by a great flood

That deluge was documented in different parts of the world at the time it happened, including Asia. Some people think that its the biblical deluge of Moses' time.

It'd most probably be from Noah's time, though evidence of an even earlier flood has bee unearthed. The parting of the Red Sea for Moses was caused by a tidal wave destroying the Island of Crete at the same time

[Fuil Dearg]

yes ur right Dark One. i was thinking of Noah but remembered the wrong name. i have edited it.
i read about the red sea incident too. some ppl think that it was the same thing that destroeyed Atlantis.

[Siryn]

are you sure Atlantis even existed though?

haha, futurama flash back...."its the lost city of Atlanta!"

[Deleted]

Oh wow Arctic Firefox, I had no idea that woman on Insight was the same on you referenced here. Heh, I don't really remember that session either, only that it seemed to rehash a lot of older debates and, as you said, there was a general consensus that all these issues are hard to isolate into strictly 'gender' issues but also had to take into consideration youth movements and perceptions and the like. Those men in Singapore made me feel a bit uneasy though, the ones who stayed at home. Had to reassess a few thoughts there.

Anyway, I thought there was also the possibility that the Red Sea/Moses occurrence was a misprint somewhere through the annals of history, where the Reed Sea had been replaced with the one we are so familiar with today. And sources indicate that the Reed Sea was in fact influenced heavily by tidal patterns which would pull the water out to quite shallow depths. But then, I'm only grabbing at this from my year 8 R.E. class, so I could just be remembering things incorrectly. And how did the tidal wave destroy Crete? I don't want to sound confrontational because I think you probably just meant ravaged Crete Dark One, but since the island's still there, I was just a bit confused. Or did you mean the destruction of the Cretan civilization at the time?

[Arctic Firefox]

galligaskins said:

Oh wow Arctic Firefox, I had no idea that woman on Insight was the same on you referenced here. Heh, I don't really remember that session either, only that it seemed to rehash a lot of older debates and, as you said, there was a general consensus that all these issues are hard to isolate into strictly 'gender' issues but also had to take into consideration youth movements and perceptions and the like. Those men in Singapore made me feel a bit uneasy though, the ones who stayed at home. Had to reassess a few thoughts there.

Those men in Singapore were just lazy *bleep*s. I mean, if they stayed at home and looked after the children and cleaned the house and cooked the meals, no problem, because that's what women would do in their situation. But they did nothing, just played tennis and drank beer the whole time (while nannies looked after the kids and did the housework). I could never be like that - you'd have to have no self-respect to think that such a life was worth living at all.

[Dark One]

galligaskins said:

Anyway, I thought there was also the possibility that the Red Sea/Moses occurrence was a misprint somewhere through the annals of history, where the Reed Sea had been replaced with the one we are so familiar with today. And sources indicate that the Reed Sea was in fact influenced heavily by tidal patterns which would pull the water out to quite shallow depths. But then, I'm only grabbing at this from my year 8 R.E. class, so I could just be remembering things incorrectly. And how did the tidal wave destroy Crete? I don't want to sound confrontational because I think you probably just meant ravaged Crete Dark One, but since the island's still there, I was just a bit confused. Or did you mean the destruction of the Cretan civilization at the time?

I mean the cretan civilisation. A tidal wave obviously wont destroy the island itself, but it would submerge it for a while, destroying buildings, crops, people etc

[catwhisperer]

Which would kind of destroy it in a way, wouldn't it??

[Fuil Dearg]

arcticfirefox said:

I think a lot of the theory on this also links up to recent sociologist ideas of how human relationships will change in the future. So far, the progression has gone something like this (this is a very rough approximation):

1) For most of the last two thousand years (Western culture): virtually everyone married, no divorce (or, at least, very little) - traditional male/female roles.

2) After mid-19th century: some divorce, less marriage, early feminists (suffragettes). This continued along into the 20th century with the feminist movement, easier to divorce, loss of faith in marriage, until:

3) Today: different forms of marriage (civil unions, gay marriage, registered partnerships), less marriage in general - women approaching equal status to men in socio-economic terms.

5) Future: instead of marriage / remaining faithful to one person, some predict that people will instead move in larger groups of close friends, so that we remain more independent. There's a term for this in Dutch: "lat-relatie", and it refers to couples who live apart and only meet up over the weekend, evenings, etc.

I'm not sure if I agree with the last one, sometimes I think we may be reaching back to the supposed stability of marriage instead. (Though on a personal note, I feel there may be more stability in the types of relationships mentioned in 5.)

With regard to #1, in ireland a few centuries ago, more than 10 less than 20, there was something very similar to divorce. i think it was better than divorce. a couple would get married. then every few years they would decide if they wanted to re-affirm their marraige. if they didnt then they would break up. i dont know what would happen their children though if they had any. i think maybe it was only the women who got to choose if they continued their marraige, im not sure. that was in the time of druids and brehan law. brehan law also imposed fines for killing deciduos trees such as oak and willow, which were sacred to them. also brehan law also said that if a man killed/murdered another man then he must provide for the dead man's family.
Dolphin's are kindof monogonious. they have usually short-term relationships of a few months with another dolphin. they get to know each other intimately over this time and they 'make love'. sometimes these relationships go on for longer than just a few months. there have been cases of captivated dolphins dying from loneliness and a broken heart a few months after their mate has died. in dolphin societies the females raise the young.

[Min]

You may think it's "retarded" grunty, but it's a scientific theory / discussion.

Edit: Oh. I see you / someone has deleted your post. Plz ignore.

[shadow]

I don't think anything will be alive 2 see 10,000 years from now.
With all this pollution and war we are all going to die in the mess we created.
The aboriginals managed to live in Australia for 2000 years or more without stuffing it up.
The white's have only bin here 200 any look what we've done to the place!
(Posted by Shadow)

[Arctic Firefox]

2000? Oh, I think it's been a lot longer than that ... 30,000 was an estimate I heard! But I completely agree with you!

[Monster]

On the marriage and family front I will say this,

Firstly as previously stated there were temporary marriages and divorce laws in ireland before christianity and in the early days of christianity.

Also polygamy can be seen in many civilisations that allow multiple husbands or more commonly multiple wives

Marriage has performed different functions at different times, such as property rights, reproduction, economic gain etc

for instance in sparta a woman could with her husbands permission become pregnant with anoher mans child, she and her husband would then raise that child. this solved problems like sterility and might introduce stronger genes into the family line

the concept of marriage and family has changed a lot in even the last hundred years. people are now more likely to marry for emotional reasons than out of economic or social ones (unmarried women were generally considered in a bad light). the extended family became the nuclear family, at first this had a sharp division of labour and gender roles and males were the undisputed patriarch. in case of a divorce they would get the children,

However because of involvement in world war two women had experienced work they now saw outside there normally inclosed life and felt more independant. as such marriage had to be repackaged to draw them back in. it became slightly more equal and they could work while their children were at school. also divorce meant that the guilty party was removed from the home with no remarriage.

Soon after the no fault divorce came in as well as remarriage. thus we see families break and up and get reconstituted alot, with fathers leaving their old family and starting new ones. at this point women gain predominance in custody rights.

Then came in the concept of biological rights. now relationship by blood is considered very important

Now we also see the growing acceptance of same sex couples, lone parents, unmarried couples and so on

family, marriage, sexuality and relationships as well as gender roles are all constantly in flux and changing, as such we should not assume they will be stable.

On another note the concept of a world without men sucking is unfair as society would change to accomodate it and female gender roles would become a lot more spread out with many new types of femininity coming into existence. However it is safer to keep the male female structure as it means that if the science of cloning is lost it would not be the end of the species.

Also people claimed monogamy was deeper than polyamoury(multiple partners), this is unfair as the depth of the relationship is dependant on the people involved. many monogamous relations are quite shallow. (many are also quite deep). the same could be said for polyamoury.

Also I have been told that technology has gotten to the point were two women genes can be used in fertilising the egg. as such this would allow for continuence of development and avoid stagnation of the species.

People are stubborn so i have no doubt they will survive.

Finally i intend to live forever and as such men will always exist

Thats all for now

Monster