Anyone Remember Event Horizon?

[Dark One]

It may come true...

Welcome to Mars express: only a three hour trip

AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.

The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.

The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.

Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.

The US air force has expressed an interest in the idea and scientists working for the American Department of Energy - which has a device known as the Z Machine that could generate the kind of magnetic fields required to drive the engine - say they may carry out a test if the theory withstands further scrutiny.

Professor Jochem Hauser, one of the scientists who put forward the idea, told The Scotsman that if everything went well a working engine could be tested in about five years.

However, Prof Hauser, a physicist at the Applied Sciences University in Salzgitter, Germany, and a former chief of aerodynamics at the European Space Agency, cautioned it was based on a highly controversial theory that would require a significant change in the current understanding of the laws of physics.

"It would be amazing. I have been working on propulsion systems for quite a while and it would be the most amazing thing. The benefits would be almost unlimited," he said.

"But this thing is not around the corner; we first have to prove the basic science is correct and there are quite a few physicists who have a different opinion.

"It's our job to prove we are right and we are working on that."

He said the engine would enable spaceships to travel to different solar systems. "If the theory is correct then this is not science fiction, it is science fact," Prof Hauser said.

"NASA have contacted me and next week I'm going to see someone from the [US] air force to talk about it further, but it is at a very early stage. I think the best-case scenario would be within the next five years [to build a test device] if the technology works."

The US authorities' attention was attracted after Prof Hauser and an Austrian colleague, Walter Droscher, wrote a paper called "Guidelines for a space propulsion device based on Heim's quantum theory".

[Siryn]

Where did you find this?
and how old is it?

this theory, if its the same one i am thinking of, it could maybe work but it wasnt the different dimention thing that was troubleing, it was the fact that, yes, you get there in a couple of hours but it would take somewhere around 20 years to slow down.

plus it wouldn't really change the laws of physics would it? i thought it would more like, add to them.

is this making sense, or do i need to up my meds?

[Dark One]

Its quite recent.

It shouldn't take you that long to slow down. If you enter a different dimension that has a faster speed of light, then the ship can quite easily reach the nearest stars in a short time. When it wants to stop, it just shuts off the engine, and drops back into our dimensional space, where normal space/time laws apply. The ship would then be forced to slow down by sheer physics.

I wonder if they've thought about the problems of rapid acceleration/de-acceleration on the human body...

[Siryn]

..........of course they have. but the ones who are developing the technology dont neccessarily have to drive the craft.

[Dark One]

True. I hope this works though! We might be able to visit the nearest star in my lifetime

[Siryn]

NEVER!!!, Not in your lifetime ..................... maybe mine though............

[Min]

That sounds really interesting - so the first person I told was Paul. He's very into alternative energies (solar, magnetic batteries, hell, he wants to hydro convert my car one day). With the research into magnetic energy that his company has done, he's said: Creating huge magnetic fields stuffs up mechanics and computers - creating a singularity using a magnetic field would rip any spaceship apart. They'd literally have to create a spaceship out of living tissue to make it happen.

And like you pointed out, rapid accel/decell would have a massive effect on a ship as well...

Anyway I reckon it sounds a little unplausible in a space situation (of course, their top scientists aren't giving out details - I wouldn't with something so sensitive!)...if they can conquer gravity to a greater extent we might have hover cars in 2015 yet ;D huzzuh!

[Kangaruth]

Okay, so I apologise for this post in advance, but I really had to comment. I read the article in New Scientist, www.newscientistspace.com/channel/space-tech/mg18925331.200-take-a-leap-into-hyperspace.html and, speaking as a particle physicist (), I'm extremely sceptical.

The German guy's theory sounds fascinating, and it sounds like these tests they want to run *might* produce some really exciting results (exciting for particle physicists, that is). Really, though, the most interesting part is the predictions of particle masses.

I suspect the whole thing about the propulsion system is mainly about funding (the US won't fund physics unless it has some kind of "defence" application). All they really want to do is test this theoretical relationship between electroweak force and gravity. Even if it does exist, it's a huge step from this to making a spaceship.

Also - there is nothing in this about "hyperspace" or hopping into parallel dimensions. The extra dimension thing is something that I've heard of in string theory - we experience four dimensions (three space dimensions and time) but there may be more, that are just too small for us to experience, or they have strange topologies. As the acceleration/deceleration problem, if you're talking about producing your own localised gravitational field, you can use this to completely counteract the g-forces on your craft, or passengers. And Min, the magnetic field isn't making a singularity, it's basically producing a gravity field (in the same way you use electricity to produce a magnetic field). I don't know what sort of field (I suspect it would be huge) would be needed to do this, but magnetic fields can be easily shielded. (We will have really huge magnetic fields in the LHC, with lots of complex electronics right around them) The problem would be how to produce this, and make it mobile enough to fit in a spacecraft - large magnetic fields need massive amounts of electricity and generally need to be made of superconductors - which requires a lot of cryogenic systems and stuff.

/end physics rant

[Siryn]

WOW, you sound way too smart for someone so young! are you still studying or are you a particle physicist for your job?


and about the:

I've heard of in string theory - we experience four dimensions (three space dimensions and time) but there may be more, that are just too small for us to experience, or they have strange topologies.

i also have heard that. or more specifically that [insert qualifiesd person here] has estimated 10 or possibly more dimensions, also some people say that every mind is connected through one of these dimensions and might explain psychic phenomina(sp??).

What an interesting topic!

[Kangaruth]

siryn said:

WOW, you sound way too smart for someone so young! are you still studying or are you a particle physicist for your job?

I'm still a student - I'm about half way through my PhD. I just sound clever 'cause this is what I study, I swear I'm pretty average compared to most of my friends!

String theorist reckon there need to be either 9 or 11 dimensions for their current best models, I think (although I'm not a theorist), but I suspect the person that said the thing about concious minds wasn't a physicist! Although it is an interesting idea.

I agree - fascinating topic, that's why I study what I study!

[Siryn]

no, they weren't a physicist. they were, i think, a clairsentient.

Im so happy that you love what you study. i gave up uni coz i just couldn't 'get into it'. i guess uni wasn't my thing.

so, when you finish studying will you be doing all this sort of thing? you know, amazing super "hyperspace" engines?

[Dark One]

Aparently String Theory will only work if there are 9 or 11 extra dimensions. The scientists involved have stated that they believe the extra dimensions are too small to ever visit, but they could be wrong. People have proposed 'hopping' into parallel dimensions for faster than light travel before.

One theory was that you could use a strong magnetic field (using vast plates) that would create a tear in spacetime to anothe dimension. The tear would only be very small, but you could move the plates apart to increase the size.

With regard to gravity, scientists have already started working on some form of 'anti-gravity'. They have been able to levitate frogs and other small devices using superconducting plates

[Kangaruth]

jgduffin said:

With regard to gravity, scientists have already started working on some form of 'anti-gravity'. They have been able to levitate frogs and other small devices using superconducting plates

That kind of "anti-gravity" involves overcoming gravitational force with a different force (in this case, electromagnetic). If actual "anti-gravity" (ie repulsive gravity instead of attractive) exists in the way proposed by Burkhard Heim's theory, we haven't found a manifestation of it yet.

Siryn - I don't think I'll end up working on hyperspace engines, but I wouldn't mind getting a job here at CERN when I finish - it maybe doesn't sound so exciting, but that'll be around the time of LHC switch-on, and it would be great to be working here when they make the ground-breaking discoveries they're hoping for.

[Siryn]

Well, if your excited, i'm excited! and i dont know what CERN or LHC is. explain.

[Kangaruth]

CERN is the European centre for particle physics research. It's where I'm doing my research for my PhD. The Large Hadron Collider is the proton accelerator/collider ring they are currently building here in order to do particle physics experiments. It's due to be completed and turned on in summer 2007.

[Dark One]

From what i remember reading about it, that place is immense! Isn't it supposed to be one of the largest underground structures in the world?

[Kangaruth]

The LHC tunnel is a 26km (17mile) long ring underground. It's certainly the largest single machine in the world, although I'm not sure about the largest underground structure (how long is the channel tunnel?) I've only seen a very small part of it, though. The overground site is huge, too - I've been here 4 months and can only find my way around a tiny section!

[Dark One]

So whats it like there?

[Kangaruth]

Um... it's big. And the atmosphere can be pretty intense (I work 9.30am-7pm most days and that's short hours!) And some of the people are so clever it's a little intimidating - my friend has a Nobel Prizewinner in the office across the corridor to his! But the social life is pretty good, as there is a large group of British students and we all live in the same couple of buildings. And the winter sports is good. And it's a great feeling to be working on something as important as the LHC - even if it's only testing detector cables for an afternoon every few weeks.

[Siryn]

so its like a its own city?

[Kangaruth]

Nope, it's just a huge office/lab complex. It's just outside Geneva. If you read Dan Brown's Angels and Demons it has a description of how he imagines CERN. It's almost the complete opposite of that. (That guy didn't have a clue what he was writing about - either the place or the physics he basis his story on!)

[Siryn]

oh, lol, kinda makes you wonder about the da vinci code then, doesnt it......

[Dark One]

Sounds like a very cool place to work!

[Lauren]

jgduffin said:

It may come true...

ARGH!!!! *runs away and hides under bed* That movie scared the cr@p out of me!!! I was holding someones hand for 95 minutes straight!! I had nightmares!! (Actually I didnt, but that makes it sound a bit more scary, hey) My friend, and NOTHING scares him, said it was a horrible movie!! I was expecting a nice space adventure like the one I'd watched the night before, but no! This one had to include people being turned inside out, and vomitting up blood, and holding out eyeballs for all to see!

[/scarymovierant]

[Dark One]

I was fine when i watched it at the cinema. It only scared me when i bought it on Laserdisc* and watched it on my own in the dark. There some bits you shouldn't pause the disc on...

*For thsoe who don't know, a laserdisc was one of the forrunners of DVD from the 70's. It was a cd the size of an LP Record. The picture quality was the same as a video cos it was an analogue signal on digital media (unlike DVD where its a digital picture on digital media)